No more politics in the comics???

[kilderkin]

I know it sounds harsh but drastic measures need to be taken when the kind of rhetoric being spouted by Marvel's employees on social media are really damaging the brand as a whole. In other industries it’s quite common for specific employees to be banned from using social media when they screw-up. In some countries public service bureaucrats are directly told not to use social media at all while they are employed by the government. I don't see why Marvel should be an exception to this understanding just because they work in a creative industry, when Marvel let things get this bad it’s time for someone higher up to step in and prevent further damage from social media drama.

Imo

In regards employers having policy about social media you are quite correct

I believe it comes under the idea of making your position untenable

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it does happen

As for moral or political tones in the story I'm all good with that

However I have felt for some time that the tones are not held in story in some places but rather directed directly to the reader

Some covers have had messages or speech that seem to read as a missive or response to comments in the real world from other consumer/creator discourse

now I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of that nor on the morals or tones themselves rather that they feel disjointed from the in mythos story

I suppose I'm saying that in the past it was done better and nowadays it's more blunt trauma and disjointed imo

But of course I'm also aware that everyone has a bigger voice these days so such things can be amplified without realising it too

[ed2962]

Any Marvel comic reader should know that for decades, the stories and medium featured politics in one form or another, with every decade from the 60's to the 2000's featuring stories, characters, and other things influenced by them. Whether it is the creation of the Black Panther, to the X-Men representing repressed minorities, they were there.

So how come all of a sudden in recent years, there are so many who say they want politics gone completely? How come after decades of this practice, it's seemingly only NOW that people are raising a big stink? Accusation of SJW's, exercises of political correctness, etc. What is it about this time that makes a decades-old practice suddenly being seen as a taboo and death to the Marvel Comics in general?

Because some people don't like change. And even those most of these "changes" are meant to be temporary, claiming that they're fed up with "politics" makes some fan's complaints sound slightly more legitimate .

[kilderkin]

Because some people don't like change. And even those most of these "changes" are meant to be temporary, claiming that they're fed up with "politics" makes some fan's complaints sound slightly more legitimate .

Actually I think a big factor here is that we get hit by it a lot more in the real world

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it's a lot harder to escape so maybe it feels more of an intrusion when people see it in their escapism hobby???

I don't mind in mythos politics but I certainly don't need real world politics being commented on my reasons being I want to forget about that

I realise it's always been around the medium but it's seems prolific as a writing frame now - it might not be but it feels like that to me

The merits or faults of such comments I'm not commenting on just how I feel about the amount of them

[Sutekh]

[SNIP]

Agreed with all of this. Great stuff Tiamatty!

Heck, it's gone the other direction a time or two, as well. Check out Secret Warrior's depiction of Obama, when Alexander/Phobos storms the White House and kills dozens of Secret Service agents attempting to kill the President, and Obama is forced to flee the White House, while Alexander sits down at the Oval Office and writes him a nasty note about how his appointment of Osborne to director level resulted in the betrayal and murder of his father (Ares), and that, if he wanted to, he could come back and run him out of the White House again, at any time...

Compared to a joke comic in which a Modok has the face of a man who wasn't even President at the time? Not even *close* to the same level.

[Prof. Warren]

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. The invention of the internet and in turn social media should have been a golden opportunity for Marvel to reach out to the fans. Things like concept art, work in progress scripts etc. Insights into the creative process that could have won Marvel the respect of even the most jaded former fans.

Yet, instead Marvel's employees only see social media as a digital soap box, a platform to berate the fans just because those fans don't hold the same ideological positions. It's a real problem for Marvel as a business, its employs have made themselves the focus of public attention and not the actual products they are being paid to produce on behalf Marvel. This is why I honestly think that Marvel should ban all of its employees from using social media, until such as time as when they can learn to stay on message and actually talk about the comics.

If you think that had the internet existed in the '60s and '70s that Marvel creators wouldn't have been every bit as vocal about their politics as today's creators are - likely even moreso - you're wrong.

If Steve Englehart wrote Secret Empire as a response to Watergate, can you imagine what his Twitter feed at the time would've looked like?

Here's a tip - instead of restricting someone else's free speech, exercise your own right to ignore it. No one's making anyone follow anyone on Twitter.

[ed2962]

Actually I think a big factor here is that we get hit by it a lot more in the real world

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it's a lot harder to escape so maybe it feels more of an intrusion when people see it in their escapism hobby???

I don't mind in mythos politics but I certainly don't need real world politics being commented on my reasons being I want to forget about that

I realise it's always been around the medium but it's seems prolific as a writing frame now - it might not be but it feels like that to me

The merits or faults of such comments I'm not commenting on just how I feel about the amount of them

Someone else said ( either in this thread or the other one) that a lot of people are really hypersensitive to politics in today's climate. I think that might be a valid observation as well. And some folks really take everything they see in the media these days really personally. Again, if a bad movie comes out, it's not just a bad movie...it's an assault against me as a citizen.

[Username taken]

If you think that had the internet existed in the '60s and '70s that Marvel creators wouldn't have been every bit as vocal about their politics as today's creators are - likely even moreso - you're wrong.

If Steve Englehart wrote Secret Empire as a response to Watergate, can you imagine what his Twitter feed at the time would've looked like?

Here's a tip - instead of restricting someone else's free speech, exercise your own right to ignore it. No one's making anyone follow anyone on Twitter.

Exactly.

People complaining about Marvel employees are probably spending a lot of time monitoring these people.

We don't have to follow anyone on social media, we all have a responsibility as to how interact and communicate with people.

[NohWonn]

Hey boys and girrls, I get really fed up with someone labeling me sexist, homophobic and mysoginistic just because i espouse the idea of smaller, far less expensive and less intrusive government. Fed up with liberals heaping scorn, derision and disrespect because I believe that our borders and shores should be secure. Fed up with the animosity because I think everyone should pull their own weight and not be a burden to society in general. I started reading comics in 1961 to escape from the poverty that i lived in then. I kept reading comics during two tours in Vietnam because they took me away from the chaos and conflict of that war. I QUIT reading comics when they became the chaoss and conflict that goes on everywhere else. I read Moby Dick to imagine and envision that battle between Ahab and the whale. I used to readd Captain America, the X-Men, Daredevil, the Avengers,Iron Man, the Hulk to imagine and envision what individuals could aspire to. Alas, those kind of stories are not being told anymore. Now the comics do the same as social media, the same as liberal main stream news, they incessantly tell me what an evil person i am because I judge someone not by the color of their skin or their gender or sexual proclivity but by the content of their character.

[Prof. Warren]

Hey boys and girrls, I get really fed up with someone labeling me sexist, homophobic and mysoginistic just because i espouse the idea of smaller, far less expensive and less intrusive government. Fed up with liberals heaping scorn, derision and disrespect because I believe that our borders and shores should be secure. Fed up with the animosity because I think everyone should pull their own weight and not be a burden to society in general. I started reading comics in 1961 to escape from the poverty that i lived in then. I kept reading comics during two tours in Vietnam because they took me away from the chaos and conflict of that war. I QUIT reading comics when they became the chaoss and conflict that goes on everywhere else. I read Moby Dick to imagine and envision that battle between Ahab and the whale. I used to readd Captain America, the X-Men, Daredevil, the Avengers,Iron Man, the Hulk to imagine and envision what individuals could aspire to. Alas, those kind of stories are not being told anymore. Now the comics do the same as social media, the same as liberal main stream news, they incessantly tell me what an evil person i am because I judge someone not by the color of their skin or their gender or sexual proclivity but by the content of their character.

How would you know if you don't read them?

Captain America, the X-Men, Daredevil, the Avengers, Iron Man, and the Hulk are all still about "what individuals could aspire to."

Sam Wilson's Captain America run was explicitly about that as is Riri Williams's story in Iron Man. Matt Murdock just argued a case in front of the Supreme Court to change the way superheroes can operate within the law and he did it at great risk to himself because he believed in it. Kitty Pryde recently testified in front of Congress, making a heartfelt speech on behalf of mutant rights. Again, a moment that shows "what individuals could aspire to."

Sorry you don't find today's comics to your taste but what you say you used to read them for is still there.

[Kintor]

If you think that had the internet existed in the '60s and '70s that Marvel creators wouldn't have been every bit as vocal about their politics as today's creators are - likely even moreso - you're wrong.

Last time I checked Stan Lee was still alive. He's actually quite tech savvy for a 94 year old, he even predicted the rise of smartphones. Crucially though, Stan Lee remains largely above the petty politics of Marvel today. So, when I see an old man with nothing left to lose not making an ass of himself on social media I have to wonder - what exactly is wrong with Marvel's current batch of employees? These are young to middle-aged career comic book talent who can't help themselves but destroy their own livelihood at every opportunity, with each condescending tweet and Tumblr post aimed at comic book fans. It's a sad state of affairs and Marvel's employees seem unable pull themselves back from the brink.

[Prof. Warren]

Last time I checked Stan Lee was still alive. He's actually quite tech savvy for a 94 year old, he even predicted the rise of smartphones. Crucially though, Stan Lee remains largely above the petty politics of Marvel today. So, when I see an old man with nothing left to lose not making an ass of himself on social media I have to wonder - what exactly is wrong with Marvel's current batch of employees? These are young to middle-aged career comic book talent who can't help themselves but destroy their own livelihood at every opportunity, with each condescending tweet and Tumblr post aimed at comic book fans. It's a sad state of affairs and Marvel's employees seem unable pull themselves back from the brink.

Check out Stan's Soapbox columns from back in the day.

They were very clear in expressing his own liberal beliefs, beliefs that were reflected in the books themselves.

He is largely above whatever's going on today because he's 94. Do you think he wants to get into heated Twitter debates at his age?

And I'll refer you back to my earlier suggestion to steer clear of creator's social media if it offends you. People have the right to freely express themselves. You can simply choose to not expose yourself to it.

[Redjack]

Last time I checked Stan Lee was still alive. He's actually quite tech savvy for a 94 year old, he even predicted the rise of smartphones. Crucially though, Stan Lee remains largely above the petty politics of Marvel today. So, when I see an old man with nothing left to lose not making an ass of himself on social media I have to wonder - what exactly is wrong with Marvel's current batch of employees? These are young to middle-aged career comic book talent who can't help themselves but destroy their own livelihood at every opportunity, with each condescending tweet and Tumblr post aimed at comic book fans. It's a sad state of affairs and Marvel's employees seem unable pull themselves back from the brink.

Stan's got lots of better things to do than worry about internet trolls, much less engage with them. Still, just the other day he reposted one of his STAN'S SOAPBOXes (from 1968). Here's what he tweeted.

Screen Shot 2017-09-01 at 8.14.55 AM.jpg

As for the creators...

You don't own them.
They don't work for you.
They are not your employees or your servants.
They are just as "tech savvy" as you.
When you punch someone, some will wince, some will run, some will cry.

And some will punch you back.

You're dead wrong about Stan, btw. He was EXTREMELY vocal about his anti-racism, anti-naziism, etc. Even random samplings of Marvel comics over the decades will reveal EXPLICIT political positions coming right out of characters' mouths.

You puppies kill me with this crap. As if any of this is new. It's the opposite of new.

Your thin little skins just can't take it.

If there's a publication you don't like, stop buying it. You'll feel better.

[Mep90]

How would you know if you don't read them?

Captain America, the X-Men, Daredevil, the Avengers, Iron Man, and the Hulk are all still about "what individuals could aspire to."

Sam Wilson's Captain America run was explicitly about that as is Riri Williams's story in Iron Man. Matt Murdock just argued a case in front of the Supreme Court to change the way superheroes can operate within the law and he did it at great risk to himself because he believed in it. Kitty Pride recently testified in front of Congress, making a heartfelt speech on behalf of mutant rights. Again, a moment that shows "what individuals could aspire to."

Sorry you don't find today's comics to your taste but what you say you used to read them for is still there.

I aspire to put people in jail before they commit crimes like my hero Carol Danvers, I also aspire to gass a minority to death to gain superpowers like those cool Inhumans.

[JackDaw]

You're dead wrong about Stan, btw. He was EXTREMELY vocal about his anti-racism, anti-naziism, etc. Even random samplings of Marvel comics over the decades will reveal EXPLICIT political positions coming right out of characters' mouths.

You puppies kill me with this crap. As if any of this is new. It's the opposite of new.

Your thin little skins just can't take it.

If there's a publication you don't like, stop buying it. You'll feel better.

I don't think Kintor was arguing that Stan wasn't interested in big political issues (and didn't bring them into comics)...but that he appeared to be above "petty politics"...he didn't personalise relatively trivial issues, but was happy to make it clear where he stood on big issues.

We all know he was a PR genius...and maybe he's fooled me...but to me he's always come across as valuing the fans, respecting them, and wanting them to get involved. Not all todays creators have that same knack..and to be fair their "real" job is writing and drawing to high standards.

[Prof. Warren]

I aspire to put people in jail before they commit crimes like my hero Carol Danvers, I also aspire to gass a minority to death to gain superpowers like those cool Inhumans.

Neither of those examples hold up to scrutiny if you're referring to the actual books.

Carol was trying to prevent potential tragedies by operating from intel from a precognitive individual. Was she wrong to do so? Arguably yes. And also arguably no. It's a debatable point, just as many real world law enforcement tactics have their defenders and detractors.

And did the Inhumans know the effect that the Terrigen Cloud would have on mutants before they released it? No. Did they think it would only affect Inhumans? Yes.

So their intent wasn't to "gas a minority to death." They're guilty of carelessness, not malice. And it was Black Bolt's decision, not one that he gained the approval of his people to carry out in the first place.