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  1. #76
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    The Krypton Chronicles is still my official headcanon version of Krypton's history and Superman's ancestry.
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  2. #77
    Spectacular Member Embryonic Superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Superman's origin is such a controversial thing. Largely because there has been so many of them. I think the reason why SO is such a mess is because it tries to be all things to everyone. The irony is, DC tends to do a better job with it when they don't care about offending everyone. Injustice actually gives Superman a cool origin. But, then. the whole concept already threw Superman under the bus. Earth One also gave him a cool origin. But it also wasn't based on trying to appease all Superman fans either. Smallville is one of the better ones precisely because it kept the best elements of both the pre-and post-Crisis origins.

    With the mainstream books, they have to take so many things into account. I don't particularly care about the Legion but a lot of people do and they have to take it into account. Some people think the concept of Superboy is stupid. So how do you appeal to them and still use the Legion? It's a no win. This is why I like the All Star route. It also allows the books to move forward instead of looking back all the time. With the Kents dead, there's no real reason to dwell too much on it.
    Yeah, and Superman's origin basically become a pissing contest among Superman fans and creators. That's how we got three new origins (and one aborted attempt at a surgical origin tinkering with Return to Krypton) in a decade's time. It's ridiculous. I'd be fine if we never had another Superman origin again. Secret Origin isn't my favorite either, but after Superman Reborn I went back to read it and it didn't rub me as wrong as it did the first time around. I'd be fine if it served as the basic template, so long as elements from Man of Steel, Birthright, and Morrison's New 52 run could all be massaged in as well. I'd rather Superman creators look forward rather than continually dwell on the past.

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The Smallville stuff is mostly fine. But even that was pretty soulless and lazy. Everything after that was both lazy and bad though. The rip-off of the helicopter rescue from the movie was weak as hell, and I still am disappointed that is back in; Byrne's space-plane reveal had a modern flair (that still stands today), and was an original spin, while serving the same purpose of Superman's coming-out-party and dramatic rescue and meeting of Lois Lane. No reason not to keep that with some tweaks outside of a movie nostalgia-fest. Parasite's origin is that he ate a radioactive donut (this is Arsenal-dead-cat-ninja-fighting levels of stupid), and then the rest actually read like filler because they had to do an about-face as it main purpose of the origin was to be a 15-year-in-the-making lead in to New Krypton, which itself got so bad though it was aborted in the middle of the project. So half of it is lazy retread. The other half is meaningless on-the-fly filler because the story it was truly meant to compliment was trashed.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-18-2017 at 01:18 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  4. #79
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The Smallville stuff is mostly fine. But even that was pretty soulless and lazy. Everything after that was both lazy and bad though. The rip-off of the helicopter rescue from the movie was weak as hell, and I still am disappointed that is back in; Parasite's origin is that he ate a radioactive donut (this is Arsenal-dead-cat-ninja-fighting levels of stupid), and then the rest actually read like filler because they had to do an about-face as it main purpose of the origin was to be a 15-year-in-the-making lead in to New Krypton, which itself got so bad though it was aborted in the middle of the project. So half of it is lazy retread. The other half is meaningless on-the-fly filler because the story it was truly meant to compliment was trashed.
    Yea, Secret Origin looked to be exactly what I always wanted and then turned out to be a total disaster of soulless and lazy and just bad. Johns' Lex was particularly disappointing and I really thought he'd do much better with him given some good Lex moments he has penned over the years.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 09-18-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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  5. #80
    Spectacular Member Embryonic Superman's Avatar
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    Yeah, Secret Origin tried to be clever and contrite, but the Metropolis portion came off as insipid at best and ludicrous at worst. I mean, it could have been worse. Given Johns' love of the Donner films, at least Lex was still essentially himself and not the Gene Hackman version.

    But again, I'll gladly take Secret Origin if it means we don't have to revisit the origin again and we can move the story forward. Anything that allows for the vast bulk of Superman history to still work, especially the Triangle era, is suitable for me.

  6. #81
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embryonic Superman View Post
    But again, I'll gladly take Secret Origin if it means we don't have to revisit the origin again and we can move the story forward. Anything that allows for the vast bulk of Superman history to still work, especially the Triangle era, is suitable for me.
    I can understand not wanting anymore tellings, but part me thinks that just isn't gonna happen and part of me wishes DC would beg Grant Morrison (which won't happen at all) to basically retell Secret Origin i.e. write the more or less pre-FP Superman origin in 200some pages. Or Dini. Or etc.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 09-18-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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  7. #82
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    The parts of SECRET ORIGIN that told the actual origin story of Superman and Clark Kent were good. But that's less than half of the series. The rest of SO was mostly about how everything is subordinate to Lex Luthor. You can throw away all that garbage and what you're left with is a good origin.

    I know that ALL-STAR SUPERMAN gave the CliffsNotes version of Clark's origin--but given that series feels like the pre-COIE Superman, I just assume he has the same origin, including his days as Superboy.
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  8. #83
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The Smallville stuff is mostly fine. But even that was pretty soulless and lazy. Everything after that was both lazy and bad though. The rip-off of the helicopter rescue from the movie was weak as hell, and I still am disappointed that is back in; Byrne's space-plane reveal had a modern flair (that still stands today), and was an original spin, while serving the same purpose of Superman's coming-out-party and dramatic rescue and meeting of Lois Lane. No reason not to keep that with some tweaks outside of a movie nostalgia-fest. Parasite's origin is that he ate a radioactive donut (this is Arsenal-dead-cat-ninja-fighting levels of stupid), and then the rest actually read like filler because they had to do an about-face as it main purpose of the origin was to be a 15-year-in-the-making lead in to New Krypton, which itself got so bad though it was aborted in the middle of the project. So half of it is lazy retread. The other half is meaningless on-the-fly filler because the story it was truly meant to compliment was trashed.
    So...he's Homer Simpson?

    I thought the Smallville stuff was kind of weak just because it seemed so contrived. He discovers half his powers in less than a week? All because of random incidents? A tornado conveniently hits the county fair and he discovers he can fly two days after he discovers heat vision? Look, Johns, if you don't want to write Superman's origin, just hand it off to someone else. JMS took all of two pages to do it in Earth One. Pak did it in four with the New 52. And his made way more sense.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  9. #84
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    I think Secret Origin is a good primer on Superman for new readers, which is basically what it was meant to be. Yes, it's not exactly the best version of his origin, but as a spine for which to hang a bunch of other stuff upon, I think it serves that purpose pretty well.

    I think it drops the ball with Lex, in particular, but I have no problem ignoring that stuff and slotting in Waid's Birthright Lex in its stead

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    If i have to introduce someone to Superman i shall give Secret Origin to that person.

    It is true that compared to other origin stories it is weak. But as an origin story this is the best.

    What shall an origin do?
    It shall introduce the lead character, the supporting characters, the setting, the villains, the themes. A good origin shall do this well. And Secret Origin does this best.

    Tell me Secret Origin does not do all of this. We are spoiled by so many excellent origin stories of Superman. Birthright or Man Of Steel are great takes which focused on something of Superman letting go of something else. Secret Origin brings up all the best parts of Superman so that a future writer has more freedom to tell his own story.

    I love Man Of Steel. This is my favorite origin. But this gives up LOSH and his career as Superboy. Superman is The Man Of Tomorrow. He stands for Hope. LOSH shows how Superman stands for hope. Children are the hope for a better future. Their friendship with Superboy means we directly see that Superman inspired the future as well as saved it.

    Lex Luthor of SO is disliked by lot of fans here. I love this take on Luthor. He is like a Willy Wonka character in Metropolis with a monopoly on hope. Superman comes and takes hope and gives them back to the people. It was brilliant. I have not seen this anywhere and is my favorite part of the book. Luthor is defeated as he finds the front of his building empty of those people who used to come almost begging to him. Superman returned the power back to the people.

    I love Lois Lane here. I love that Lois can't see Superman and Clark Kent are one. And i love it even more when she discovers this all by herself. Of all people Lois is the one who can discover Clark's secret. And she does eventually. Birthright took a unique way. The glasses obscured his eyes and changed his eyes' alien like color. Lois fell for that. Plausible but unsatisfactory to me. SO Lois catches this fact that Clark wants himself to be underestimated. This is a better way than the glasses in my opinion. She doubts him from the start. In the future she will find this on her own. One more thing is that she is fierce and annoying yet at the same time more mellow/sweet. Lois in Birthright and Man Of Steel while awesome almost look like being overcompensated for the Silver Age years. At times she appeared really unpleasant(though fun to read). Here there is more balance.

    And Jimmy Olsen. Jimmy Olsen is Superman's pal. SO shows this beautifully. They are the best pals. Both found each other in a really important point of their lives. Jimmy Olsen has a long history in Superman's books. Any writer on the future can use this book and get that Jimmy Olsen ongoing.

    Thus, as an origin story this is the best. It takes all the history of Superman and gives a version of Origin which opens up all possibilities for future stories. This does a really good job of introducing a new reader to Superman and his world. Thus, even if weak in parts this is by far the best origin.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 09-19-2017 at 07:47 AM.

  11. #86
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Parasite's origin is that he ate a radioactive donut (this is Arsenal-dead-cat-ninja-fighting levels of stupid)
    Ha! That's awesome, didn't remember that. So ironically, Johns used Infinite Crisis to kill off the superhero farce, then brought it back a few years later. Jerry Siegel literally wrote the book on that farce and I'm glad there's nothing standing in the way of it being alive today. Glad if things can be not so serious.

  12. #87
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    When I was reading SECRET ORIGIN, it was like a relief to finally have a story that I could give to my sister (just as an example) and she would get it--because this was a good approximation of the Superman from movies and TV shows.

    But for me the definitive Superman origin story is in THE AMAZING WORLD OF SUPERMAN, METROPOLIS EDITION (1973). By E. Nelson Bridwell, Carmine Infantino, Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson--based on previous origin stories of Superman--it was printed in black and white (with grey shading) and subsequently reprinted in colour in LIMITED COLLECTORS' EDITION C-31, SECRET ORIGINS OF THE SUPER DC HEROES and other publications.
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  13. #88
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    But for me the definitive Superman origin story is in THE AMAZING WORLD OF SUPERMAN, METROPOLIS EDITION (1973). By E. Nelson Bridwell, Carmine Infantino, Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson--based on previous origin stories of Superman--it was printed in black and white (with grey shading) and subsequently reprinted in colour in LIMITED COLLECTORS' EDITION C-31, SECRET ORIGINS OF THE SUPER DC HEROES and other publications.
    I was floored when DC reprinted it in color in a SReturns movie tie-in trade. I always wanted a normal sized color copy of it (as I had the big Treasury edition). It really is a great gathering of much of the Pre-Crisis origin elements. And of course the cast of creators on it makes it so special too.

    There some maps in the oversized Treasury edition too, but I don't recall if those were ever reprinted in a smaller tpb.
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  14. #89
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    The Post-Crisis idea of Superman's powers being partly psionic always appealed to me, and without that concept we would't have Kon-El. I always assume that characters beyond a certain level of strength possess tactile telekinesis, because their feats make no sense otherwise.

    Of course, the heavy gravity idea appeals, too. So my idea is that at Golden Age levels level, the powers are purely physical, but with solar energy thrown in, tactile telekinesis amplifies the physical powers.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    There some maps in the oversized Treasury edition too, but I don't recall if those were ever reprinted in a smaller tpb.
    The map was the same as the one in SUPERMAN No. 239, but I don't know if it's been reprinted since. I pulled the map out from my Metropolis Edition when I got it and put it up on my bedroom wall. I'm not sure what happened to it after that. I must have taken it down from the wall at some point, but then I could never find it. And so a few years ago I bought a second copy of the Metropolis Edition just so I could have the map.
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