Scemma Was Earned or Not?

[Ulfhammer]

Is Emma Frost the love of Scott's life? Is Jean's? I can't definitively say yes to either. Love is complex, and so too are his relationships with these two very complex women.

I do find it fascinating how we, as passionate fans, are so often inclined to draw lines in the sand to establish/proclaim be-all-end-all, flag-waving, solidarity with one another. ha ha.

I think that each of these women are indicative of who Scott was at the time of their respective relationships and give insight into the man he wants to be and/or became. We are, each of us, personalities that are shaped and altered over time, continually influenced and swayed by our relationships and environments.

One of my favorite musicals has a lyric that goes: "Who can say if I've been changed for the better, but, because I knew you I have been changed for good"

Jean and Emma, in many ways, are two halves of one whole and I think that neither of them would comfortably admit to being envious, on some level, of the other. The good girl and the bad girl. But we know, or ought to know, that such labels are never that cut and dry or black and WHITE.
Jean is the IT girl of the O5. Everyone was drawn to her, and I refuse to believe that it was solely because she was the only girl. There's more to her than simply her lady parts. She was Scott's first love and she was held up on a pedestal, and eventually, the pedestal Scott put her on, along with the circumstances of his death/return proved to be the undoing of their relationship.
Enter Emma Frost. Emma entered and pursued Scott at a very opportune time and proved to be what he needed at the time. And they fell in love. Does that devalue what he had with Jean? I would argue it doesn't. People change and people evolve and so too does love. Love can last forever, but that doesn't mean love remains unchanged.

Wow.
I got really ranty. Sorry all.

I'm very fond of Scemma. That period of their lives represents some of the stories I'm most fond of and I'm doubly appreciative of the man Scott became while with Emma, but I won't dismiss or undercut his life with Jean to polish the sparkle of Scemma.

I think people get tangled up in "it's either one or the other" but the truth is both relationships had merit. I tend to find that most people don't think Scemma is very valid as a relationship because of Jott, not because of some particular characteristic of how Emma and Scott interacted.

One of the major issues people seem to have it that Emma is perceived as being no more than Scott's GF throughout. Having pretty much the entire run from Morrison through Fraction in my mind I just can't agree. Emma is definitely intertwined with Scott but that's no different that any other comic book couple I've read. That said Emma was often pursuing her own agenda, whether it was pursing Scott in Morrision, getting the school on it's feet in Whedon's run or leading the dark x-men in Fraction's.

[Ulfhammer]

well, it didn't. It was really unbelievable



she always did shady and wrong things. Let's cut that she is a good person

I don't see how her being a good or bad person has anything to do with this. It's more a question of did the writers convey a ligitimate mutual attraction, appreciation and respect between the two characters. I think morality doesn't have a lot to do with that although of course it does effect other things.

[Kookykrumbs]

Wow, I could never get onboard Scott/Emma considering how that relationship started. Just trashy.

[Starrius]

Scott and Jean


I was wondering
was Scott and Emma pairing one of Quesada's ideas in regards to destroying married Marvel couples?

[Starrius]

Wow, I could never get onboard Scott/Emma considering how that relationship started. Just trashy.

I agree

this is also the same woman that helped Mastermind manipulate Phoenix's mind that resulted in Dark Phoenix

[Kookykrumbs]

That's one of the things I wanted to talk about actually. The real reason Scemma exists and became a serious relationship, is because they wanted to change the direction of Scott's character. Basically they wanted him to be more "edgy" and become less of a "boy scout", so they put him with someone like Emma, because of course that being on a relationship with someone like Jean is what makes him what he was. AFAIK Morrison literally said that killing Jean and putting him with Emma represented a new tone for the X-Men.

Honestly, I find that quite ridiculous, and I don't get why people say it like it was a great thing. It basically says that Scott's personality depends on who he's sleeping with. Jean was a traditionally good girl, and then so was he. Emma is more ruthless, cold, or whatever you'd like to put it, then that's how Scott suddenly is too. It just makes it looks like he's easily influenceable and makes Jean and Emma look like plot devices that exist primarily to develop their man.

Agreed. Poor writing all around.

[Kookykrumbs]

Scott and Jean


I was wondering
was Scott and Emma pairing one of Quesada's ideas in regards to destroying married Marvel couples?

I suspect so.

[Starrius]

That's one of the things I wanted to talk about actually. The real reason Scemma exists and became a serious relationship, is because they wanted to change the direction of Scott's character. Basically they wanted him to be more "edgy" and become less of a "boy scout", so they put him with someone like Emma, because of course that being on a relationship with someone like Jean is what makes him what he was. AFAIK Morrison literally said that killing Jean and putting him with Emma represented a new tone for the X-Men.

Honestly, I find that quite ridiculous, and I don't get why people say it like it was a great thing. It basically says that Scott's personality depends on who he's sleeping with. Jean was a traditionally good girl, and then so was he. Emma is more ruthless, cold, or whatever you'd like to put it, then that's how Scott suddenly is too. It just makes it looks like he's easily influenceable and makes Jean and Emma look like plot devices that exist primarily to develop their man.

I liked the boyscout Scott and his being with the good girl, Jean

[ZNOP]

I agree

this is also the same woman that helped Mastermind manipulate Phoenix's mind that resulted in Dark Phoenix

Just wait for it... Someone is going to drop-in and say that Phoenix/Jean Grey was going to go "dark" despite the Hellfire Club's machinations eventually.

[Starrius]

I liked the boyscout Scott and his being with the good girl, Jean

nice people do not have to finish last

the Scott change remind me of pre-med Jason Quartermaine turning into mobster Jason Morgan in the soap opera, General Hospital

[Cyke is Slim]

During AvsX Emma was confident that Cyclops would stick with her; but I think that, beneath it all, Cyclops always had a hint of distrust towards Emma. Tony Stark may not have gotten between them, but Namor did, and it was heavily ironic that Emma’s psychic affair with Namor was the final nudge that pushed Cyclops into a full-on Phoenix-style attack on Emma.

[Calaigah]

That's one of the things I wanted to talk about actually. The real reason Scemma exists and became a serious relationship, is because they wanted to change the direction of Scott's character. Basically they wanted him to be more "edgy" and become less of a "boy scout", so they put him with someone like Emma, because of course that being on a relationship with someone like Jean is what makes him what he was. AFAIK Morrison literally said that killing Jean and putting him with Emma represented a new tone for the X-Men.


Honestly, I find that quite ridiculous, and I don't get why people say it like it was a great thing. It basically says that Scott's personality depends on who he's sleeping with. Jean was a traditionally good girl, and then so was he. Emma is more ruthless, cold, or whatever you'd like to put it, then that's how Scott suddenly is too. It just makes it looks like he's easily influenceable and makes Jean and Emma look like plot devices that exist primarily to develop their man.

1. You are biased against Emma and Scott, the same way most x-posters are biased against the Scarlett Witch. Not an objective view.

2. The part I bolded. No it doesn't. That's your own projection.

3. Scott suddenly changed cause of Emma?! Almost as dumb as Emma-haters who say her "redemption" began with dating Scott while ignoring Gen X. Scott began his change with Apocalypse but sticking to canon, would burst your bubble, no?

4. If Emma had never existed, Scott still would've become more radical. He became more radical because after decades of believing in the dream, it ended with mutantkind facing threat of extinction after extinction. That's what most affected Scott and made him more radical. That's why people praised his evolution. Most young people think they can change the world with love, but when you get older, you let go of that. You become more jaded when you realize the unfairness of it all. Emma, someone who knows you sometimes have to get your hands dirty in order to survive, was able to understand and support Scott at a time when most of his colleagues would've allowed mutants to go extinct just so they could act superior to others. If anything, without Emma's understanding, Scott would've been even MORE radical than he was. Her understanding of him allowed him to take a more balance approach with his actions.

5. If Emma had never existed, Scott and Jean still would've failed. The romance between the two blossomed when there was still hope that mutantkind would be integrated. If Jean had lived through HoM, she wouldn't have been able to support Scott in his more extreme actions.

[Starrius]

During AvsX Emma was confident that Cyclops would stick with her; but I think that, beneath it all, Cyclops always had a hint of distrust towards Emma. Tony Stark may not have gotten between them, but Namor did, and it was heavily ironic that Emma’s psychic affair with Namor was the final nudge that pushed Cyclops into a full-on Phoenix-style attack on Emma.

that seems like karma

[Starrius]

1. You are biased against Emma and Scott, the same way most x-posters are biased against the Scarlett Witch. Not an objective view.

2. The part I bolded. No it doesn't. That's your own projection.

3. Scott suddenly changed cause of Emma?! Almost as dumb as Emma-haters who say her "redemption" began with dating Scott while ignoring Gen X. Scott began his change with Apocalypse but sticking to canon, would burst your bubble, no?

4. If Emma had never existed, Scott still would've become more radical. He became more radical because after decades of believing in the dream, it ended with mutantkind facing threat of extinction after extinction. That's what most affected Scott and made him more radical. That's why people praised his evolution. Most young people think they can change the world with love, but when you get older, you let go of that. You become more jaded when you realize the unfairness of it all. Emma, someone who knows you sometimes have to get your hands dirty in order to survive, was able to understand and support Scott at a time when most of his colleagues would've allowed mutants to go extinct just so they could act superior to others. If anything, without Emma's understanding, Scott would've been even MORE radical than he was. Her understanding of him allowed him to take a more balance approach with his actions.

5. If Emma had never existed, Scott and Jean still would've failed. The romance between the two blossomed when there was still hope that mutantkind would be integrated. If Jean had lived through HoM, she wouldn't have been able to support Scott in his more extreme actions.

shrugs

with Quesada in charge, Scott and Jean pairing wouldn't have survived any way
look what happened to Peter and Mary Jane 3 years later - they haven't been together since their Mephisto-deal break up

I read that Quesada wanted to keep Jean dead even though Morrison was planning to bring her back to life
I read that Morrison and Quesada wanted the Scott-Jean pairing

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

During AvsX Emma was confident that Cyclops would stick with her; but I think that, beneath it all, Cyclops always had a hint of distrust towards Emma. Tony Stark may not have gotten between them, but Namor did, and it was heavily ironic that Emma’s psychic affair with Namor was the final nudge that pushed Cyclops into a full-on Phoenix-style attack on Emma.

What book did you read? It wasn't Namor & Emma that pushed Scott over the edge they were physically being attacked and he wanted her half of the power to finish things off. He was power hungry.