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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Definitely agree with Dr. Strange and Black Bolt. The former has been hugely nerfed in power, from a guy who used to teleport entire teams of Defenders around the world, through dimensions, and even rarely through time or across intersteller distances, a guy who got bored with Nighthawk constantly needing a ride somewhere and just crafted, right on the spot, a teleportation ring that he could use to teleport across the entire planet, to the Bendis Avengers-level Dr. Strange who couldn't teleport anywhere, because Bendis wanted to write scenes of Dr. Strange and his Ninja Sidekick Avengers talking about stuff in the Quinjet on the way to or from whatever never-heard-of-it-before, nobody-will-ever-mention-it-again 'world ending threat' they were going to face. As long as he's the Sorcerer Supreme, and *expected* to be defending the world from threats like Dormammu and Shuma-Gorath and Chthon and Set and D'Spayre and Nightmare, then he absolutely needs to be a step above every other magician on the planet. And Black Bolt has been brought down from electron-manipulating guy who can single-handedly punk the Fantastic Four to 'screams at stuff guy' whose world-shattering scream has had to be nerfed down and down again, now that he seems to scream *in every darn appearance* to where he's really not terribly much more impressive than the Banshee.

    But for characters like Namor and the Thing, I don't feel like they've been nerfed, so much as the Hulk has stopped being a big strong guy, and has turned into a hyperbole, like an Image character from the Authority. He's 'the strongest one there is' and that means somehow he automatically wins every single fight he's in, even if it's with *the entire Marvel Universe.* Boring. I love super-powers, and even cosmic Silver Surfer level power, but hyperbole catchphrase power just feels like cartoonish dick-measuring to me. Dr. Strange's Crimson Bands of Cytorrak used to restrain Hulk effortlessly. The Silver Surfer could boost his physical abilities with comic power and throw down with the Hulk in a physical fight, until he quite literally got bored of that, and drained the gamma radiation out of him and turned him back into Bruce Banner, permanently cured, again, pretty much effortlessly. That these characters can't do that sort of thing anymore isn't a sign of them being 'too weak,' or needing a power up, it's a sign of something being wrong with the Hulk. Buffing everyone else's power levels to compete with that would just be, IMO, making the problem worse, and turning the MCU into a cartoonish arm-race as to whose planet-busting kameha-kameha blast is throbbinger and veiny-er than the other idiots. The same logic would apply to making Johnny or Ben more powerful *in reaction to Reed's intelligence.* If Reed being 'too smart' is the problem, then a better solution, IMO, would be to provide the Four with some threats that smarty mcsmartypants can't solve in the lab (or, as is often the case for this family of explorers, keep Reed away from a handy lab entirely!), not to make the Thing rockier or the Torch hotter. Better writing can produce situations where the other Three can make powerful contributions without making Reed's Brain be the deus ex machina to every problem. "Ooh, it's Galactus! Quick, throw Reed's Brain at it!"

    As for other characters, I'm more interested in seeing the powers they do have being used intelligently and creatively. In any artistic endeavor, it's about as much the colors that you don't use, the words you excise, the tones you choose not to put in your art, as those you do. The best art doesn't necessarily have the biggest number of colors in it, all competing for attention. The best music doesn't necessarily have every tone, all at once, and really, really loud. And, IMO, the best comic-book characters don't necessarily have tons of super-powers (like Michael Pointer or the Composite Superman) or really, really overwhelming levels of power (like the Sentry or Triumph). If bigger powers made the characters 'better,' the X-Men would consist entirely of Omegas like Mikhail Rasputin, Gabriel Summers and Cassandra Nova and whomever, and less overpowered characters like Cyclops and Nightcrawler wouldn't even have a shot, while the Avengers would be all Sentry, Star Brand, Nightmask, Captain Universe, Hyperion, Abyss, Void, etc. and some of us remember how long that team lasted, compared to one's with 'weak' characters like Captain America, the Black Knight and the Wasp.

    IMO, some characters could perhaps use toning *down,* to make them more narratively useful (and less likely to get sidelined when a writer doesn't want to use someone who can solve their entire plot by snapping their fingers, or who overshadows the rest of the characters they actually want to challenge), and, in the case of female characters like Jean Grey and Wanda Maximoff, saddled with the seemingly inevitable 'girls can't handle power' storyline in which they flip out and become cosmic threats.
    That's more of a problem with the writers than the characters tbf.

  2. #47
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    Tigra. Her mystical origins should give her a bit more lee way into what she can do besides low tier physical stats.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    More powerful? Over the years I've had some crazy ideas on the subject. Here are some of them. Try not to laugh too much. It's only cool until your coffee starts shooting out of your nostrils.

    1. Redwing. In one of my many fanfics back in the day, I penned Redwing as one of the facets of the god, Horus. In the myths there was Horus the Elder, who according to some tomes was the brother of Osiris. But there was also Horus the Younger, who was the son of Osiris. I wanted Redwing to be Horus the Elder, trapped in avian form, but able in some way to assist the Falcon by gradually bestowing upon him powers over time. Sam's ability to talk to birds was just the start. When it was all said and done, Redwing would act like the Uni-Power does with Captain Universe and give Falcon a set of limited abilities that would make him more effective as a champion for the common man. One of the built-in limitations, of course, is that Redwing/Horus the Elder isn't able to access his full complement of powers on this side of Heliopolis, so naturally, he can't turn Sam into some OP cosmic level character. But he could give Sam the power to speak to creatures, the ability to fly without the jetpack, moderately enhanced senses, strength, stamina and durability. And in battle Redwing would even aid Sam by acting as debuff support by stealthily draining the energies from opponents without them knowing it, making them weaker and Sam more effective in hand to hand combat. Lastly, I wanted Redwing to be Sam's life support, capable of erecting a force field that provided Sam with the oxygen and nutrients needed to survive for about 21 days in the void of space.

    2. Monica Rambeau. Ewing did a great job of restoring Monica to some of her top end levels, but I'm still not content. Not yet. I mentioned this in another thread, but I think Monica as the living embodiment of electromagnetic spectrum should be able to manifest anywhere -- and any time -- that said energy is extant, just like Mephisto can manifest anywhere that evil exists. I'm not saying that she should be able to do this effortlessly. There should be a cost. But I'm sick and tired of seeing Monica trapped by force fields, energy barriers and all manner of shields, which otherwise do nothing to keep out ambient light. Monica is ambient light. She should be able to pass through anything, if normal light can pass. She has the gift of cosmic awareness now. It would be cool to see Monica use that in conjunction with her light manifestation powers in a manner that she calls "spectral displacement" to phase out from one location on Earth only to reappear in another universe to help an alien species in distress.

    3. Blue Marvel. For every person that says that he's already OP, there are thousands of others who insist, and I agree with them, that he's not in the same category as Molecule Man, adult Franklin Richards, Phoenix, Mjolnir or Odinforce wielding Thor, World Breaker Hulk, Void/Sentry and on and on and on and on. Truth be told, we really don't know what his upper level is, but even Anti-Man now apparently surpasses him, since Anti-Man's energy manipulation abilities are limitless. Since it took over 70+ years for Marvel to create someone like Blue Marvel, let's go ahead and max him out. In theory he should be every bit as powerful as Anti-Man, but just so that there isn't any doubt, I would boost him even further. And I would do it with a creative twist. Adam thinks that the Neutral Zone can kill him. He's partially right. But somehow he's completely ignoring the fact that two people that he knows -- Kevin Brashear and Anti-Man -- have survived in the Neutral Zone indefinitely. In fact, both have become more powerful, perhaps due to exposure of the NZ. What if Adam is wrong? What if destabilization and disincorporation is necessary for him to evolve to the next level? Sometimes you have to tear down muscle in order to build new, stronger sinew. Same goes with intellect. So yeah, one of Adam's old enemies surfaces and tosses him into the Neutral Zone without his armor, thinking that will kill him. Blue Marvel emerges more powerful than ever. Only this time, the boost also encompasses the latent psionic potential found in all humans, and Adam becomes a multi-level cosmic badass with basic telepathy, cosmic scale telekinesis, end-game matter manipulation and rearrangement, post-cognitive discernment, and other mental powers tossed in for good measure. Too OP? Not really. It's nothing that we haven't seen from Sentry, the Silver Surfer, the Watcher and others. But it does firmly put Blue Marvel in the same category as Molecule Man, adult Franklin Richards, Phoenix, Mjolnir or Odinforce wielding Thor, World Breaker Hulk, Void/Sentry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Still worried? Don't be. Blue Marvel will probably be in comic book limbo for the next 10 years anyway. Still, it will be nice to say that he exists.

    4. Dr. Strange. When you think about all of the characters in the MU that owe their powers to magic, it's really a shame that Stephen doesn't use magic to temporarily achieve analogous boosts. This would probably ruin the character for many of his fans, but I would definitely show Stephen as being able to cast spells on either himself or other friendlies that temporarily boost their physical abilities depending on the situation. I would also have Stephen create a magical device of some sort. That's what really powerful mages do, from Merlin to Odin on down the line. It's time for Stephen to step up. The eldritch Staff of Stephen Strange is waiting.

    5. She Hulk. This, too, might ruin the character, but in the interest of a good laugh, Jen gets the power of flight. The story goes, one day Jen is bored watching cable TV and every single channel seems to have an episode of the Avengers on. Perturbed, Jen breaks through the 4th Wall and storms DisMarvel headquarters demanding to be in the next Avengers movie. The execs tell her that they tried and she didn't screen well to an audience of 500 viewers. A majority of the respondents claim that Jen's powers are too boring, so the execs decide to make changes to spruce her up based on the respondents' recommendations. The execs promise her that if she can change the perception of their consumer base in a year, she'll be cast in the next Avengers movie. And so for a full year the She-Hulk gets magic pauldrons and cape that allows her to fly. To be sure, she's infuriated and mortified, but she wears it. Further, she gets a new costume that has a really short skirt. Again, more mortified and infuriated that anyone would dare tell her what to wear, but she goes with it. Next the execs take her down to the CGI department and tweak her physique and even the tint of her skin and hair. They make her less hippy and a lighter shade of green. Her green locks are also gone, replaced by a platinum silver coiffe. This to give her a more exotic look, or so the execs say. Lastly, She-Hulk is bequeathed a morning star mace and a kusarigama, which have "special properties." Jen spends most of her time trying to get the special powers to trigger, of course. The point of this storyline is less about Jen getting new powers than it is about all of the crap that women actors have to go through in order to get movie roles in Hollywood compared to their male counterparts. And yes, at some point in the story Jen returns to DisMarvel HQ to back out of the deal, but she's shunted into a meeting with middle management, one of whom looks an awfully alot like Hercules and who tries to give her the casting couch treatment. We're not sure what happened to that guy, but we do notice that Jen no longer has the morning star mace after that issue. My guess is that the mid-management exec still has it painfully lodged in a place where the sun doesn't shine.

    Pretty Much My Thoughts exactly, especially on the blue marvel part. His showings in Ultimates left a lot to be desired.

  4. #49
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Vision got super nerfed since he came back. Even his cartoon iterations are stronger than him now.

    I don't recall Namor losing to Luke Cage or any street level guys. I remember some Accuser whooped him in Invaders, T'challa shanked him during Time Runs Out and Hyperion killed him.

  5. #50
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    The Spot

    I was watching a Youtube video and they had the 5 or 10 worst superpowers and the Spot was on the list. All I could think about was how the hell does the ability to open interdimensional portal be consider a bad power. If I had that power, I would deadly as hell.

    The Spot.jpg
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  6. #51
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    cable is another character who is always stopped from realising his full power potential.

  7. #52
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Namor. Namor use to be one of the most powerful character in the MU. One for the few characters at Marvel that can solo the Hulk and win. But recently Marvel has been chumpojg him out a bit.
    I blame the original Defenders book for this. In his early days, Namor was a powerhouse to be feared, but in a small team book allied with Hulk, Surfer, and Dr Strange, he comes out as low man on the totem pole, despite it being a very tall totem pole.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Tigra. Her mystical origins should give her a bit more lee way into what she can do besides low tier physical stats.
    she's a free agent now that the Cat People have let her go. maybe that means less magic juice. it happens to a lot of mystically-imbued characters, over-time (see: Juggernaut).
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I blame the original Defenders book for this. In his early days, Namor was a powerhouse to be feared, but in a small team book allied with Hulk, Surfer, and Dr Strange, he comes out as low man on the totem pole, despite it being a very tall totem pole.
    but hasn't he been shown to, consistently, vex the Hulk; strength-wise?
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    The Spot

    I was watching a Youtube video and they had the 5 or 10 worst superpowers and the Spot was on the list. All I could think about was how the hell does the ability to open interdimensional portal be consider a bad power. If I had that power, I would deadly as hell.

    The Spot.jpg
    it's the classic loser-with-great-powers theme. another example is Hydro-Man, who can be quite devastating when written with an agenda (flooded an entire diner full of people out of boredom & nearly took down Black Panther). Spot definitely has a useful powerset. he's been exploited by the Gideon Trust (in Fantastic Four) and a drug-trafficking villain called The Coyote (over in Daredevil's book). I'd say that they have to keep him underperforming or risk making him too dangerous.


    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Vision got super nerfed since he came back. Even his cartoon iterations are stronger than him now.

    I don't recall Namor losing to Luke Cage or any street level guys. I remember some Accuser whooped him in Invaders, T'challa shanked him during Time Runs Out and Hyperion killed him.
    Ant-Man knocked him out cold.
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  12. #57
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    Cyclops. He should have the full range of all optic powers: not just force beams from his eyes, but all forms of superhuman blast vision (heat vision, lasers etc) as well as enhanced super-sight (infrared, microscopic visions, X-Rays etc). With his canonical and unique enhanced spatial awareness there's nothing he shouldn't be able to 'see' and detect by tuning his vision to the right frequency of light and also deliver variable yields and forms of optic blasts.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zodlike View Post
    Cyclops. He should have the full range of all optic powers: not just force beams from his eyes, but all forms of superhuman blast vision (heat vision, lasers etc) as well as enhanced super-sight (infrared, microscopic visions, X-Rays etc). With his canonical and unique enhanced spatial awareness there's nothing he shouldn't be able to 'see' and detect by tuning his vision to the right frequency of light and also deliver variable yields and forms of optic blasts.
    problem is that his eyes are portals to a dimension that houses this force energy. he's not generating the blasts.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    problem is that his eyes are portals to a dimension that houses this force energy. he's not generating the blasts.
    The simplest explanation would be that his eyes are portals to raw extra-dimensional energy that he can modify through the lens of his eyes, his focus and his will to various effects, including (but not limited to) those I discussed in the previous post.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Vision got super nerfed since he came back. Even his cartoon iterations are stronger than him now.

    I don't recall Namor losing to Luke Cage or any street level guys. I remember some Accuser whooped him in Invaders, T'challa shanked him during Time Runs Out and Hyperion killed him.
    In AvX Luke gave Namor a really hard time while fighting in water if I recall correctly. Namor didn't loose but the idea that Cage who has always been 20-40 ton max character would give Namor a hard time when he suppose to be 90-100 plus is just sad.
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