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  1. #16
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    If Phoenix is hijacked and made an Avenger that will piss me off. I like the Avengers but come on all the Phoenix mythos since creation has been tied to the X-Men.
    I can't wait for the revelation that Mystique had a relationship with Korvac... just to be fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    If Phoenix is hijacked and made an Avenger that will piss me off. I like the Avengers but come on all the Phoenix mythos since creation has been tied to the X-Men.
    Well, and the Shi'ar, Death, Galactus, Otherworld, GOTG, Kun Lun and now even Asgard and the Inhumans.

    Though it is fundamentally a force for evolution (ie: mutation).

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    Well, and the Shi'ar, Death, Galactus, Otherworld, GOTG, Kun Lun and now even Asgard and the Inhumans.

    Though it is fundamentally a force for evolution (ie: mutation).
    By X-Men I meant their corner of the Marvel universe which I count the Shi'Ar a part of I mean Fox even have their film rights. As for the rest the X-Men in general have guessed starred in other series but the Phoenix has always been firmly part of the X-Men mythos. It'd be like Hulk just joining the X-Men because the public hates him too.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    If Phoenix is hijacked and made an Avenger that will piss me off. I like the Avengers but come on all the Phoenix mythos since creation has been tied to the X-Men.
    I would be so pissed off too, but I can see this happening. The Dark Phoenix movie can be used as a way to generate interest in Avengers and it seems like Marvel editors can't stand the fact that there are X-readers who only buy X-books. They want to force them to buy Avengers.

  5. #20
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    Avengers need X-men so their comics can sell.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    I would be so pissed off too, but I can see this happening. The Dark Phoenix movie can be used as a way to generate interest in Avengers and it seems like Marvel editors can't stand the fact that there are X-readers who only buy X-books. They want to force them to buy Avengers.
    No way Marvel puts Jean on an Avengers book. Too many issues with promoting and merchandising for a x-men character. Every Avengers tshirt, poster, etc. would require Marvel to write a cheque to Fox and that ain't gonna happen.

    What a marvelous clusterf*ck bringing Jean back to live at this point would be. It would screw everything up which I am totally in favor of.

  7. #22

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    If true (and BC has a pretty good track record with these things), then this is very promising. We're already seeing the setup unfolding in multiple books. Some of it played out in Mighty Thor. Some of it is playing out now in Jean Grey's solo series. It looks like we'll see more in Marvel Legacy. It seems as though Marvel is finally getting serious with the Phoenix Force. They've kept Jean dead for so long and have avoided resolving conflicts with the Phoenix Force for years. Perhaps this will reveal the ultimate destiny of the O5 X-men, as well as the fate of all the dead X-men characters that have remained in limbo for so long.

    Ideally, I'd like to see this result in a return of an adult Jean Grey, Cyclops, Wolverine, and Charles Xavier. We're already seeing Xavier's return setting up. Perhaps the Phoenix Force will be the key to getting the rest of them back. However, we've been teased with Jean's return MANY times before. Marvel has usually avoided it for unknown reasons. O5 Jean has really established herself and I think Marvel likes having a Jean Grey without the baggage of her adult self. I have a feeling they'll drag that out as much as they need to.

    Personally, I think there are two possibilities. The most likely, in my opinion, doesn't involve adult Jean returning. I think Marvel will keep the O5 X-men in the picture for a bit longer. But I think the Phoenix Force will return in some form and I think it'll have a role, possibly with the Avengers. Marvel seems to be setting that up with Marvel Legacy. Maybe that's the plan for the Phoenix, making it its own character and incorporating it into the Avengers books. It may be part of Jason Aaron's master plan and since he wrote X-men for a while, it might be something on his wish-list. If I were to put a number on this happening, I'd say it has about a 95 percent chance. Marvel has mixed and matched X-men and Avengers, despite their feud with Fox. They let Thing join Guardians of the Galaxy. They let Rogue join Uncanny Avengers. I think they'll let Phoenix join the Avengers. With X-men: Dark Phoenix coming out next year, as well as an Avengers movie, I think they'll see it as a chance to profit off of both.

    The second possibility, and the one I really hope happens, involves this leading to Uncanny X-men's return. I think there's a reason why Marvel hasn't brought it back. They may be setting it up to return once a few major players come back to the picture. Astonishing X-men may be part of that process. Perhaps the Phoenix Force will complete it. If Uncanny X-men returns and has all its heavy hitters, including Charles Xavier, an adult Jean Grey, an adult Cyclops, and a non-Old Man Logan, I think that would be the strongest X-book in years. That's the route I would take if I were the editor at Marvel, but I'm not and I doubt that's going to be the case. It's not impossible, but it's not very probable either. It may end up being the case that O5 Jean rejects the Phoenix Force completely and they become completely separate beings. That would allow Marvel to have their cake and eat it too. That's what DC did with Rebirth in a lot of cases. I think Marvel wants to use the Phoenix, but doesn't want to be bound by circumstance.

    But the Phoenix returning is a big deal. It will definitely shake things up at Marvel. It's just a matter of what form it'll take and how far Marvel will take it.
    Last edited by MarvelMaster616; 09-12-2017 at 06:42 PM.
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  8. #23
    The Best There Is berserkerclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    We already have a Logan, Jean and Scott anyway. Bringing back any of them is sort of unnecessary.

    Xavier tho...
    I disagree with this. That thing isn't Jean. IMO

    Xavier would be ok but Jean is a long time coming
    Wolverine,Rogue,Gambit,Jubilee Jean Grey top 5 x-men Favorites

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    If true (and BC has a pretty good track record with these things), then this is very promising. We're already seeing the setup unfolding in multiple books. Some of it played out in Mighty Thor. Some of it is playing out now in Jean Grey's solo series. It looks like we'll see more in Marvel Legacy. It seems as though Marvel is finally getting serious with the Phoenix Force. They've kept Jean dead for so long and have avoided resolving conflicts with the Phoenix Force for years. Perhaps this will reveal the ultimate destiny of the O5 X-men, as well as the fate of all the dead X-men characters that have remained in limbo for so long.

    Ideally, I'd like to see this result in a return of an adult Jean Grey, Cyclops, Wolverine, and Charles Xavier. We're already seeing Xavier's return setting up. Perhaps the Phoenix Force will be the key to getting the rest of them back. However, we've been teased with Jean's return MANY times before. Marvel has usually avoided it for unknown reasons. O5 Jean has really established herself and I think Marvel likes having a Jean Grey without the baggage of her adult self. I have a feeling they'll drag that out as much as they need to.

    Personally, I think there are two possibilities. The most likely, in my opinion, doesn't involve adult Jean returning. I think Marvel will keep the O5 X-men in the picture for a bit longer. But I think the Phoenix Force will return in some form and I think it'll have a role, possibly with the Avengers. Marvel seems to be setting that up with Marvel Legacy. Maybe that's the plan for the Phoenix, making it its own character and incorporating it into the Avengers books. It may be part of Jason Aaron's master plan and since he wrote X-men for a while, it might be something on his wish-list.

    The second possibility, and the one I really hope happens, involves this leading to Uncanny X-men's return. I think there's a reason why Marvel hasn't brought it back. They may be setting it up to return once a few major players come back to the picture. Astonishing X-men may be part of that process. Perhaps the Phoenix Force will complete it. If Uncanny X-men returns and has all its heavy hitters, including Charles Xavier, an adult Jean Grey, an adult Cyclops, and a non-Old Man Logan, I think that would be the strongest X-book in years. That's the route I would take if I were the editor at Marvel, but I'm not and I doubt that's going to be the case.

    But the Phoenix returning is a big deal. It will definitely shake things up at Marvel. It's just a matter of what form it'll take and how far Marvel will take it.
    Very much agree with the bold above. Add Emma, Storm and Rouge to the mix and make this team hammer their differences out. Too much of the x-line has been caught up in Scott killed Xavier or Jean should have been with Logan or Everyone hates Emma. If Marvel truly wanted to paint a brighter future for mutants it would start with the a-list burying their collective hatchets. I'd buy the hell out of this book. I'm not sure Aaron is the right guy though. This would require a special touch. Unfortunately I'm not sure who would be up for the challenge that Marvel could still get (or would even try).

    It's interesting that the article said the Phoenix and not Jean. This leak is likely sanctioned regardless but what a twisted web we weave Marvel.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    It's more likely the Phoenix resurrects Cyclops or Wolverine than Jean Grey.
    This will be a Cyclops/Avengers story by Jason Aaron.

    No thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    If Phoenix is hijacked and made an Avenger that will piss me off. I like the Avengers but come on all the Phoenix mythos since creation has been tied to the X-Men.
    It was done like 5 years ago already in AvX.
    Last edited by Disciple of Redd; 09-12-2017 at 07:01 PM.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    This will be a Cyclops/Avengers story by Jason Aaron.

    No thanks.
    I doubt Marvel would put Cyke on the Avengers either. Same problem as Jean. They're both X-Men and Fox owns them. Marvel is doubling down on the Avengers and won't pollute those profits by cutting them up with Fox.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    No way Marvel puts Jean on an Avengers book. Too many issues with promoting and merchandising for a x-men character. Every Avengers tshirt, poster, etc. would require Marvel to write a cheque to Fox and that ain't gonna happen.

    What a marvelous clusterf*ck bringing Jean back to live at this point would be. It would screw everything up which I am totally in favor of.
    We're talking about the Phoenix, not Jean. Give her a retcon and bye bye Phoenix in the X-Books. Do you remember what happened to Wanda/Pietro?

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuteClops View Post
    We're talking about the Phoenix, not Jean. Give her a retcon and bye bye Phoenix in the X-Books. Do you remember what happened to Wanda/Pietro?
    That's a good point. Marvel has set a precedent for turning former X-men properties into Avengers properties. We may see that again with the Phoenix. If the Maximoff twins, two characters who had been closely tied to Magneto for decades, can be retconned, then no character is safe. The Phoenix Force is such an iconic figure in Marvel lore. Even though it mostly has X-men connotations, that wouldn't stop Marvel from trying to make it more Avengers-like. I think that process already started in Mighty Thor. Marvel Legacy may be another step in that process, making it part of the Avengers in 1,000,000 BC. This latest ploy may be the final step, a way to sever Phoenix from Jean Grey, the same way Marvel severed the Maximoff twins from Magneto. I'd rather not see that either. But they've done it before. They have an incentive to do it. There's really nothing any Marvel fan can do to stop them. It's sad, but that's the world we live in. So I think X-men fans should start bracing themselves for a future where the Phoenix Force is tied to the Avengers and NOT Jean Grey.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuteClops View Post
    We're talking about the Phoenix, not Jean. Give her a retcon and bye bye Phoenix in the X-Books. Do you remember what happened to Wanda/Pietro?
    That would involve changing the legal status of the character by separating Jean from Phoenix (not the PF). The two character would be functionally identical and therefore a copyright infringement waiting to happen. I suppose they could negotiate with Fox on this point but there's a big difference between the Phoenix and Wanda\Pietro.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    No way Marvel puts Jean on an Avengers book. Too many issues with promoting and merchandising for a x-men character. Every Avengers tshirt, poster, etc. would require Marvel to write a cheque to Fox and that ain't gonna happen.

    What a marvelous clusterf*ck bringing Jean back to live at this point would be. It would screw everything up which I am totally in favor of.
    Literally none of this is true and people should stop repeating this. Marvel doesn't pay anyone to merchandise their characters. Some corporations wrote Marvel checks to exclusively do movies about X-Men, F4, Namor and Hulk years ago, but Marvel is free to do whatever they want with all of their characters outside of the movies.

    As for Phoenix on Avengers: it's already been announced, sadly.

    You can expect Thor to be a part of this next Cyclops/Avengers Phoenix story.

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