Kobik: Were the Heroes Selfish Not Using Her to Restore People?

[The Cool Thatguy]

She didn't cause all of them. Just because she created HydraCap doesn't mean that everything that he did was her fault. The heroes who either didn't see his threat in time or were complicit in his actions and the public who backed him have to shoulder their blame. No one made anyone do anything - Kobik didn't influence anyone's free will so she's not obliged to grant a "do over" for whatever happened.

She altered Cap's mind/history without his consent, and actively hid knowledge of his change.

So yeah, she holds a great deal of responsibility in this. She's basically holding others responsible for her own misdeeds.

[Prof. Warren]

She altered Cap's mind/history without his consent, and actively hid knowledge of his change.

So yeah, she holds a great deal of responsibility in this. She's basically holding others responsible for her own misdeeds.

But Stevil still had the ability to make his own choices. He didn't have to keep going down the road that he did - no matter what his background was.

Is Kobik still a bit of a jerk and a somewhat hypocritical God? Yes. But she wouldn't be the first such entity to fit that description.

[Derek Metaltron]

If you asked anyone - whether they're common or not - if they want any and every one of their deceased loved ones to come back, they'd all say yes. Doesn't mean it can happen.

And as it's been stated, this was Kobik's choice - not any of the heroes.

Can I see panels where she - not the heroes - actively says so?

[The Cool Thatguy]

But Stevil still had the ability to make his own choices. He didn't have to keep going down the road that he did - no matter what his background was.

Is Kobik still a bit of a jerk and a somewhat hypocritical God? Yes. But she wouldn't be the first such entity to fit that description.

True.

But the whole idea put forth, that 'there needs be some lesson', is pure BS.

Up until he turned, no one really had any reason to suspect Cap (save Coulson). In an emergency (that Cap engineered), Cap was given the authority to handle it, as per normal. Hell, Shield only turned because they were all mind controlled.

And Vegas? They were punished because people *fought back*. Those aren't the people who needed to learn any lesson.

[Prof. Warren]

True.

But the whole idea put forth, that 'there needs be some lesson', is pure BS.

Up until he turned, no one really had any reason to suspect Cap (save Coulson). In an emergency (that Cap engineered), Cap was given the authority to handle it, as per normal. Hell, Shield only turned because they were all mind controlled.

And Vegas? They were punished because people *fought back*. Those aren't the people who needed to learn any lesson.

Well, life is never fair. People die. Sometimes under cruel circumstance. But the sacrifice, willing or not, of the innocents in Vegas hopefully will not be for naught.

[Prof. Warren]

Can I see panels where she - not the heroes - actively says so?

Don't have the issue directly on hand but the captioning, as I recall, attributes all changes at the story's end to "She". It's definitely stated in a way where it's clear that Kobik is making the call at the end, it's not the heroes telling her what to do.

[Derek Metaltron]

Well, life is never fair. People die. Sometimes under cruel circumstance. But the sacrifice, willing or not, of the innocents in Vegas hopefully will not be for naught.

If one has the ability to undo all of the suffering of innocents in a situation she set in motion, Kobik has a right to deal with that. No one can force her of course, but if that's honestly the situation Nick is stating - that she is unwilling because 'we must remember' and its her choice and not the apparently justified heroes - she is a pretty heartless little god kid.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well, life is never fair. People die. Sometimes under cruel circumstance. But the sacrifice, willing or not, of the innocents in Vegas hopefully will not be for naught.

True.

But as the saying goes, "there are some things that only happen in bad fiction and real life."

AS a narrative end to the story, it absolutely sucks. Yes, Stevil had the ability to make his own choices, but he was acting on completely wrong information, implanted without his knowledge. No one would say that Stevil was acting with informed consent

[Mike_Murdock]

Well it wasn't really the heroes' choice to let it stick. Kobik is a sentient being and chose to let it stick.

Exactly this. The heroes weren't selfish because it wasn't their decision.

[Derek Metaltron]

Exactly this. The heroes weren't selfish because it wasn't their decision.

Then they shouldn't make it sound like pretty much every hero agrees with her apparent decision. Some of them should be mad at least and thinking for the innocent people in Vegas.

[JKtheMac]

I dunno. Feels half-assed to Kobik to just not fix all of the problems caused by HydraCap. Sure, you could say "where does it stop then?", but how are any of those things her fault? She has no duty to fix that stuff. Shouldn't she at least fix the problems she caused?

The point of this story isn't that Hydra Steve is a bad guy, that killed thousands, or a few superheroes, it is that nobody should be handed this kind of power. Reset everything and it could happen again.

[JKtheMac]

Then they shouldn't make it sound like pretty much every hero agrees with her apparent decision. Some of them should be mad at least and thinking for the innocent people in Vegas.

Where is this? I certainly didn't read this story.

[QBall]

Basic omnipotence problem - if a character can do anything then their limitations on the use of that power are generally defined by the influence of the other characters in the story.

[InformationGeek]

Well, life is never fair. People die. Sometimes under cruel circumstance. But the sacrifice, willing or not, of the innocents in Vegas hopefully will not be for naught.

Okay, now that just sounds weak. Come on man, "life is never fair"? If life is "never" fair in this universe like our own, then absolutely no superhero should ever ever ever ever ever ever come back and the impossible and unbelievable should not be possible to stop.

[JKtheMac]

Okay, now that just sounds weak. Come on man, "life is never fair"? If life is "never" fair in this universe like our own, then absolutely no superhero should ever ever ever ever ever ever come back and the impossible and unbelievable should not be possible to stop.

Are you really calling for a major summer event that ends in a total reset? Have you any idea how unpopular that would be. Not only the fans, but the writers would be up in arms.