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  1. #76
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JarOfFlies1 View Post
    Jean coming back to life and then joining the Avengers instead of staying with her best friends in the X-Men makes about as much sense as the X-Men ignoring the fact that the Red Skull had Xavier's brain and then leaving it up to the Avengers to stop their old mentor's brain from being used by a villain. Because Phoenix and Xavier are most certainly more important to the Avengers than the X-Men.
    Did they even know about it?
    i'm always online and i'm nice on there

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by JarOfFlies1 View Post
    Jean coming back to life and then joining the Avengers instead of staying with her best friends in the X-Men makes about as much sense as the X-Men ignoring the fact that the Red Skull had Xavier's brain and then leaving it up to the Avengers to stop their old mentor's brain from being used by a villain. Because Phoenix and Xavier are most certainly more important to the Avengers than the X-Men.
    While You are right about first part(Jean coming back to life and then joining the Avengers instead of staying with her best friends in the X-Men) unless of course she would have story with some character development.

    I don't think that You are fair with second part (Xavier's brain). unless You think that X-men shouldn't have few teams. Old Man Logan, Laura have solo series. Why they don't have at least 20 x-men with them all the time? Why Extraordinary X-men didn't had other teams with them? or rather:

    Wy are You not unhappy with these examples?

    even Wolverine was on this avengers and x-men team.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    While You are right about first part(Jean coming back to life and then joining the Avengers instead of staying with her best friends in the X-Men) unless of course she would have story with some character development.

    I don't think that You are fair with second part (Xavier's brain). unless You think that X-men shouldn't have few teams. Old Man Logan, Laura have solo series. Why they don't have at least 20 x-men with them all the time? Why Extraordinary X-men didn't had other teams with them? or rather:

    Wy are You not unhappy with these examples?

    even Wolverine was on this avengers and x-men team.
    I just feel that recovering Xavier's brain should have been told as an X-Men story and not and not an Avengers one. Sort of the way I would expect the Avengers to deal with Ultron if Ultron had killed Pym and had Pym's brain. Oh wait. The avengers did handle that.

    I feel that Jean coming back to life and all the fallout from it should also be left to the X-Books.

    And I mean nothing bad to the Uncanny Avengers. I read the comic and enjoy it

    Sorry to interrupt the topic of weather or not Jean should join the Avengers with a side tangent.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JarOfFlies1 View Post
    I just feel that recovering Xavier's brain should have been told as an X-Men story and not and not an Avengers one. Sort of the way I would expect the Avengers to deal with Ultron if Ultron had killed Pym and had Pym's brain. Oh wait. The avengers did handle that.
    Last time i checked Red Skull was Avengers enemy.
    Last time Apocalypse stole Hank Pym...
    that's why it is a little more complicated

    I feel that Jean coming back to life and all the fallout from it should also be left to the X-Books.
    I agree

    And I mean nothing bad to the Uncanny Avengers. I read the comic and enjoy it
    ok

  5. #80
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelossik View Post
    Last time i checked Red Skull was Avengers enemy.
    Last time Apocalypse stole Hank Pym...
    that's why it is a little more complicated


    I agree


    ok
    I thought Apocalypse Twins stole Sentry. Am I misremembering the story? Or was that part of the Axis story I didn't like and couldn't afford to waist money on? I quit comics for a while and some times I get stories mixed up.

    EDDIT: And here I am derailing this thread's topic again.
    Last edited by Thievery; 09-15-2017 at 01:51 AM.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    And the x-books are no place for a powerhouse huh? This is exactly the kind of elitist thinking that can justify cannibalizing the x-books. Wow baby Jean as a consolation? How generous!

    And for the record Jean's connection to the x-books is that she's a founding member of the x-men. How many founding members of the Avengers are on x-titles?
    To be fair it's a lot harder to placce non-mutants/Avengers on x-teams story wise. Yeah its happen before but overall it would just be werid to have guys like Wonder Man, Wasp, or whoever else in an X-title. Simply because those characters don't really fit the narrative of the X-Men.

    However, X-Characters have a easier time of hoping the fence because their "cause" can be used in any setting. Also at the end of the day the X- Men are just heroes who emphazie saving their people. Again that can be done on the Avengers,FF, or even on Guardians of the Galaxy.

    So in short X-Characters have more flexiblity then most other characters when it comes to teams.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 09-15-2017 at 04:37 AM.
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  7. #82
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    To be fair it's a lot harder to placce non-mutants/Avengers on x-teams story wise. Yeah its happen before but overall it would just be werid to have guys like Wonder Man, Wasp, or whoever else in an X-title. Simply because those characters don't really fit the narrative of the X-Men.

    However, X-Characters have a easier time of hoping the fence because their "cause" can be used in any setting. Also at the end of the day the X- Men are just heroes who emphazie saving their people. Again that can be done on the Avengers,FF, or even on Guardians of the Galaxy.

    So in short X-Characters have more flexiblity then most other characters when it comes to teams.
    Makes no sense. Excuses.

    If Avengers don't fit because they don't feel persecuted, then how would said persecuted group members fit on a team that never can truly appreciate it? It. Does. Not. Make. Sense.

    No the X-Men are not just bland heroes
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  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Phoenix within of itself shouldn't be just an X-Concept though. Phoenix is and has always been more of a cosmic entity therefore it should be a part of the greater MU.
    True but what you can not undo is the fact that your interactions, important stories and first appearance are linked to the X-mens as well as most of your hosts.

    The right answer to this question is simple when someone talks about Phoenix what comes to mind an A or an X?

    Quote Originally Posted by SerCo View Post


    It already part of the Avengers mythos, sadly.
    It takes more than a story with a magic dragon, a version of Vision of an alternate future or reality with Phoenix or a retcon involving Odin and other characters to steal the Phoenix from the X-mens .

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Makes no sense. Excuses.

    If Avengers don't fit because they don't feel persecuted, then how would said persecuted group members fit on a team that never can truly appreciate it? It. Does. Not. Make. Sense.

    No the X-Men are not just bland heroes
    And yet X-Characters have been placed in various other roles in the MU and have done just fine. But when its been done with others *Looks at Spider-Man* it feels complelty out of place.

    No one said the X-Men are bland heroes. Just that at their core they are heroes.
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  10. #85
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    True but what you can not undo is the fact that your interactions, important stories and first appearance are linked to the X-mens as well as most of your hosts.

    The right answer to this question is simple when someone talks about Phoenix what comes to mind an A or an X?


    .
    Don't think anyone wants to take that away. Just expand upon it and give it a chance to grow. Staying in one place has and probably will continual to make the concept stagnet.

    How many ways can we kill Jean and corrupt the Phoenix is getting old. If they are going to keep doing it at least get other characters involved to offer different story opportunities. Better yet don't do it and place her in a setting where everyone isn't just waiting for her to go crazy or die again on them. Give her a fresh start with different people so she can move passed the mold she has been set in for so long.

    Then when the stigma is gone or dampened bring her back. Doesn't have to be forever. Just intially.
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  11. #86
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Did they even know about it?
    Of course they did. A good number of X-men have been members of the Uncanny Avengers and the group as a whole learned about this in AXIS when Red Skull became Red Onslaught

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Don't think anyone wants to take that away. Just expand upon it and give it a chance to grow. Staying in one place has and probably will continual to make the concept stagnet.

    How many ways can we kill Jean and corrupt the Phoenix is getting old. If they are going to keep doing it at least get other characters involved to offer different story opportunities. Better yet don't do it and place her in a setting where everyone isn't just waiting for her to go crazy or die again on them. Give her a fresh start with different people so she can move passed the mold she has been set in for so long.

    Then when the stigma is gone or dampened bring her back. Doesn't have to be forever. Just intially.
    the problem isnt they havent really explored it with Jean. Outside of the initial Phoenix story by Claremont, they shied away from doing anything Phoenix with Jean until Morrison brought it back and explored it but that was shortlived as he killed her. Prior to that, all we got was her using the costume and name but the Phoenix mythos were largely ignored other than to retcon her role in DPS. Thats why it feels even worse that they have done so much with it since with other characters bc its really more than they've done with Jean since maybe Inferno. That sucks bc it was her thing
    Last edited by Havok83; 09-15-2017 at 06:21 AM.

  12. #87
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    I think if I am willing to consider that possibility, I deserve to be misled by Jason Aaron and Matthew Rosenberg.
    I deserve to continue to dissolve the X-men, I deserve more AVX, Death of X, Inhumans Vs X-men, Hitlerclops, and continue to usurp the importance and identity they have within the Marvel universe.
    I'm going to avoid referring to that retcon as the real one, I prefer that Marvel assault me with a gun to take my money and thus feel less offended.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuteClops View Post
    Did you read AvX, right? I mean, when the Avengers tried to kill the Phoenix Force, because it was a **cough, cough** destructive force **cough, cough**. And what Cyclops said about the same Phoenix Force? Oh, yeah, you got it!

    Then, again: working with Phoenix so the Avengers are finally going to admit Cyclops was Right? Good on them time to own up their mistakes.
    Yea I remember the story.

    Again I ask what cyclops and avx has to do with jean becoming an avenger though (the topic at hand). Cyclops being rigjt or wrong is a separate discussion.
    Your favorite superhero- the one you visit these forums to talk about. Would they talk to others the way you do on this message board?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Did they even know about it?
    Wolverine was de facto leader of X-men after AvX. He was a member of Uncanny Avengers also. Saying that X-men ignored this is simply wrong.
    Mutants were involved. They were involved also in AXIS were Red Skull was defeated. He was hiding after AXIS.

    later? Terrigen cloud was more important or at least that's my opinion.

    I think that this is strange that people see problems with Red Skull plot when they don't see problems with X-men teams working independly. Why All New X-men almost never help Extraordinary X-men? X Force usually were working alone.

  15. #90
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    Jean should return to the X-Men period, they need her badly...she's been away for over a decade...

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