Pretty upset with the Mr. Oz reveal

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Has Jor-El's characterization in comics, movies, TV, etc., been consistent over the years? Golden/Silver Age comics Jor-El was different from later depictions, as were the various movie and TV Jor-Els. Overall, has he been benign, malevolent, or indifferent?

"Mr. Oz" is definitely the most malevolent that I've ever seen him portrayed, but are there precedents for this in earlier appearances?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Jor-El was pretty villainous in the early seasons of Smallville.

According to Mark Waid, the big bad of Birthright was originally going to be a malfunctioning AI of Jor-El before Jeph Loeb, who was writing on Smallville at the time, told him that was what Smallville had planned. So, Waid changed his story, then Smallville dropped that plot thread and suddenly started pretending that the Jor-El AI hadn't been an asshat for a few seasons and claimed he was only "hard on Clark to prepare him for his destiny".

Damned shame. Birthright is great, but you can absolutely tell that Waid had rewritten that ending with the fake Kryptonians hired by Lex.

[Buried Alien]

Jor-El was pretty villainous in the early seasons of Smallville.

The depiction of Jor-El most familiar to me is the relatively benign Marlon Brando version of the Donner/Reeve SUPERMAN movies, so the dark side of Jor-El is a new experience for me.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Jim Kelly]

I get the feeling that if the writers were left to their darker impulses and didn't get any push back from the audience, then every parent of a super-hero would be an SoB. Henry Allen, Queen Hippolyta, Thomas and Martha Wayne, Robert and Moira Queen, James Gordon, John and Mary Grayson, C.C. Batson--no parent, biological or adoptive, would be safe from the Anakin Skywalker treatment.

[bitter_sarcasm]Apparently child abuse is the best way to ensure a kid grows up to be a super-hero.[/bitter_sarcasm]

[victorsage]

I'm conflicted on it. On one hand it's balsy and somewhat unexpected but If it is handled poorly it could be a major problem.

As for Metallo, he'll be back. After all, this isn't​ the first time someone ripped out his Kryptonite heart.

I don't like it either, but if it's handled poorly they can always say this Jor-El isn't from the Prime universe but instead is from somewhere else.

Metallo getting his heart ripped out is basically a tradition at his point. Since Lex did it, in one of the greatest scenes of the 90s.

[victorsage]

You know, it's not like the Kryptonians were so perfect. They had wars. They have a ton of evil villains in the Phantom Zone. They arrogantly stuck to their erroneous beliefs - even when their best scientist was telling them otherwise - and let their planet get destroyed.

I know it didn't happen in this thread, but I always find it odd when people claim Krypton was some utopia. The whole point of the story is that they became arrogant over their own greatness and allowed their planet to be destroyed well they were still living on it. It's made very obvious in the first Krypton story that Krypton is a broken society. Back when Clark's biological Dad was called Jor-L.

[victorsage]

I know that Superman as a concept engenders a lot of insecurity, what with this alien from another planet coming to "fix" our problems which we ourselves can't seem to solve I've seen a similar sentiment with Wonder Woman. But I think we need to get over it, desperately trying to put our stamp on Superman just makes him look weak and sort of pathetic. Frankly I'm not sure why John Byrne had to stir the pot and create this Earth vs Krypton thing that's been going on since 1986 in the first place, before that it seemed pretty simple to Clark that he had two sets of parents. Now were stuck with "MUH REAL DAD".

Oh please. Traditionally Clark doesn't even know he is an alien, never mind who his biological parents are. Until Superman #61 he has no idea where he is from, and only gets a hint about it because of a con man calling himself Swami Riva. And it didn't become a big deal until the Silver Age, at which time the whole "I'm not an Earthling, my planet is dead!" nonsense started as it bleed into the Bronze Age. Don't go blaming Bryne for that, SA Supes is the one who would cry about long lost Krypton, not Post Crisis Superman.

[KoriandrJean]

I know it didn't happen in this thread, but I always find it odd when people claim Krypton was some utopia. The whole point of the story is that they became arrogant over their own greatness and allowed their planet to be destroyed well they were still living on it. It's made very obvious in the first Krypton story that Krypton is a broken society. Back when Clark's biological Dad was called Jor-L.

Been a long time, victorsage! Glad you're back! Has anyone ever wondered what would have happened if the Council had listened to Jor-(E)L - and evacuated the planet instead?

[Assam]

Has anyone ever wondered what would have happened if the Council had listened to Jor-(E)L - and evacuated the planet instead?

Earth (And the universe as a whole) would be totally f**ked?

[theoneandonly]

If krypton had been saved would earth cease to exist without superman or will the threats Superman handled get randomly distributed among his peers like CM, batman,wonder woman. batman could have fun with luthor, toyman,Hellgrammite, wonder woman will get the banshee, bizzaro or rather bizzaress, cyborg wonder woman, Captain Marvel could take lobo, Manchester black, doomsday, mangog etc.or will they get overwhelmed or these villains won't exist without superman?

[GreatKungLao]

If krypton had been saved would earth cease to exist without superman or will the threats Superman handled get randomly distributed among his peers like CM, batman,wonder woman. batman could have fun with luthor, toyman,Hellgrammite, wonder woman will get the banshee, bizzaro or rather bizzaress, cyborg wonder woman, Captain Marvel could take lobo, Manchester black, doomsday, mangog etc.or will they get overwhelmed or these villains won't exist without superman?

Shazam won't be the same without Superman as an ideal to strive towards. Superman acts not only as a physical saviour, but he also is an example of a hero that many characters try to follow. Earth might handle on its own, but its inhabitants won't be the same without Superman.

[Soubhagya]

Shazam won't be the same without Superman as an ideal to strive towards. Superman acts not only as a physical saviour, but he also is an example of a hero that many characters try to follow. Earth might handle on its own, but its inhabitants won't be the same without Superman.

I agree with you completely. Superman is much more than just a 'savior'.