Pretty upset with the Mr. Oz reveal

[The World]

But he certainly got the ball rolling on this larger idea that Clark needed to reject Krypton and embrace the Earth in that last issue of Man of Steel where Jor-El's ghost force feeds Clark the memory of Krypton and he goes flying around the world to think things over.

[Kuwagaton]

Byrne had Superman tearfully relay his cultural origins to Lois and used the 50th anniversary issue for a story where Superman swam across a giant stream of kryptonite to possibly find relics of his lost people. The point was never that Superman rejected Krypton, but at one point was overloaded with the weight of its history and chose to be the man he knew himself to be.

Jonathan Kent may have raised him, but this story is built on the idea that Superman has never regarded his bio dad as less than ideal.

[Embryonic Superman]

Yeah, and one thing I've liked about the Post-Crisis Superman (I'm including everything from 1986 - 2011/2016 onward as the same history) is how he slowly comes to view himself from both Earth AND Krypton. To me, it makes sense that if you're raised up until a certain age to believe you're just a normal kid from Kansas, and then learn as a teenager that you're actually an alien from a dead world, it would take awhile to come around to that revelation and take even longer to start to embrace it. Post-Crisis Superman always respected Jor-El and Lara, but he didn't really start getting invested in his Kryptonian heritage until the Loeb era. Granted, that was mostly due to the writers of that era wanting to reinsert Silver Age concepts back into the canon, but I think it works in-universe as well.

I have to wonder if the decision for the Kents to be dead post-Reborn is to directly avoid the "Jor-El meets Ma and Pa" angle. In any case, I do hope Oz Jor-El brings up Kal-El's Earth parents. He seems to not be painting Lois and Jon with the same broad brush he does the rest of humanity, so I'd hope he have the same respect for the two who raised Clark. That he alternates between calling Superman "Clark" and "Kal-El" suggests he's not full-on Eradicator with his views towards his heritage.

[whiterabbit]

Jurgens and Tomasi step on the Legacy of a character that should never be touched. They may as well revive Uncle Ben and turn him into a villain.

[Soubhagya]

Why can't anyone see the potential of this to be a good story?

First he may not be a villain. And if a villain he is a more interesting character than just a hologram.

Try to see it from the viewpoint that Jor-El has lost hope. Superman will give him hope once again. If handled well this may be one of the very best stories of Superman.

Try to remember Return of The Jedi. The battle of Luke was not just to defeat his father but to redeem him.

Try to find the silver lining. This is no shock tactic to increase sales. There is an actual battle coming up between Superman and Dr. Manhattan. Hope vs Despair.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

On second thought, I'll hold out till the arc is done.

[whiterabbit]

Why can't anyone see the potential of this to be a good story?

First he may not be a villain. And if a villain he is a more interesting character than just a hologram.

Try to see it from the viewpoint that Jor-El has lost hope. Superman will give him hope once again. If handled well this may be one of the very best stories of Superman.

Try to remember Return of The Jedi. The battle of Luke was not just to defeat his father but to redeem him.

Try to find the silver lining. This is no shock tactic to increase sales. There is an actual battle coming up between Superman and Dr. Manhattan. Hope vs Despair.

Jor-El's hope was in his son, not some idealistic vision of what humanity should be. He knew humanity could be dangerous and misguided, but sent him to Earth, anyways. He didn't send Kal to Earth to change it into Krypton.

[GreatKungLao]

Jor-El's hope was in his son, not some idealistic vision of what humanity should be. He knew humanity could be dangerous and misguided, but sent him to Earth, anyways. He didn't send Kal to Earth to change it into Krypton.

Why everyone thinks that Jor-El wants to make Earth into Krypton? That was never an idea or at the very least it was never presented that way still.

[Soubhagya]

Jor-El's hope was in his son, not some idealistic vision of what humanity should be. He knew humanity could be dangerous and misguided, but sent him to Earth, anyways. He didn't send Kal to Earth to change it into Krypton.

Do you mean that he sent him for only one reason? To save his son's life. If this is it then he is doing the same thing now. If Superman continues to fight for humanity he will die.

He did not send him to make earth Krypton. That is obvious in any story.

So why did he send Kal-El to Earth? Was there another reason then just to save his son's life? What is hope in his son? I would be thankful if you can clarify or direct me somewhere to understand this.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

In Byrne's origin, Superman's Kryptonian parents actually hoped that he would make Earth more like Krypton. Jor-El specifically chose Earth because Superman would be the "supreme being" of the planet.

[Stardust]

Nah, that was fully intended, and came across as, positive. He wasn't denying Clark live his life, he was a teacher teaching his student. Clark needed to know these things going forward. He was getting the answers and the lessons he himself sought out so he could plot his future. That the teachings took 12 years, well, that was a consequence that Clark himself not once is ever portrayed as regretting.

Sure the movie presented it like this. Doesn't mean I have to buy it.
I see it this way: The movie isolated a person for twelve years from other people "for his own good". You think this is fine, I think this is one of the worst things you can subject someone, too.
That Clark himself doesn't regret it only means that the writers of this movie never thought of the implications of their plot, and I can easily interpret it as someone, who has been brainwashed for twelve years and who hasn't started to question that, and perhaps never will.

[Soubhagya]

In Byrne's origin, Superman's Kryptonian parents actually hoped that he would make Earth more like Krypton. Jor-El specifically chose Earth because Superman would be the "supreme being" of the planet.

That was not so obvious. But i agree. Lara asked whether he will rule them? Shape them to proper Kryptonian ways? Jor-El said 'Perhaps'.
Yes he hoped so. A few panels later Jor-El said that their child would save the legacy of Krypton.

Hoped and wanted are two different things.

So what does this S being the symbol of hope mean? Was it in Man Of Steel movie? Or was it in comics before?
What about the other prominent origin Birthright?
Jor-El's turn to villainy would matter a lot if he taught Superman to be a hero. If Jor-El's hologram only taught him history lessons in the current continuity we can imagine he was never good to begin with.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

The Superman symbol meaning hope came from Birthright.

[Soubhagya]

The Superman symbol meaning hope came from Birthright.

So hope is important for the house of El. Fine. What does this hope mean?
In Man Of Steel movie Jor-El said it means there is potential for good in everyone.
What does Jor-El of comics say? If he repeats the same as the movie he has lost hope for now.

[GreatKungLao]

I know this story might be old as the universe itself, but it is actual with our modern times especially. All this stuff with Jor-El, him getting disappointed with humanity and trying to prove to his son why exactly humans are filthy creatures, it all comes down to the point that Superman once again will have to figure out why humans potential for good is more important than them falling to selfish desires, are humans even worth fighting for in the first place? Why exactly then if yes? Is there hope at all for human race in the first place? Is there a point in trying to do good if in the end humanity still choses to do evil despite all your efforts? Where will all your attempts to be their ideal will lead to in the end if it wasn't working so well so far? Can a person be of two cultures or he is obligated to chose one over another? If Jor-El is going to throw all of this on Kal-El and if his son will find legitimate answers to all of it, then I think we are at the verge of getting a great Superman story. Even though all of what I wrote suits more for his confrontation with Dr Manhattan, but if Mr Oz is Dr Manhattan's kind of avatar, a person with conscious and free will who in the end succumbed to The Watchmen's pessimistic worldview, who is better to do that with Superman if not his own father who now shares Manhattan's goals? Because Dr Manhattan himself is a stranger to Superman, so making Clark kneel in from of pessimism will have to take a much more personal approach, which is why Jor-El suits for this role perfectly.