Remo Williams Vs. Kenshiro (1st Volume)

[Nik Hasta]

See, this here?

That's because by your own admission that it's Kenshiro circa volume one, and you argued that Kenshiro at his best would be a different story. I was talking about Kenshiro at his best. Not as described in the OP. That should have been obvious.

...this is an example of projection.

I literally never said that end of series Kenshiro would win in this thread or really contested this outcome of this match. You might be getting me confused with big_adventure whom you initially responded to with your first post in this thread.

[Jaden Korr]

See, this here?



...this is an example of projection.

I literally never said that end of series Kenshiro would win in this thread or really contested this outcome of this match. You might be getting me confused with big_adventure whom you initially responded to with your first post in this thread.

I was referring to earlier.

https://imgur.com/a/Eq7ape1

Anyway, I will be back in an hour with more feats.

[Nik Hasta]

I was referring to earlier.

https://imgur.com/a/Eq7ape1

Anyway, I will be back in an hour with more feats.

I don't say that Kenshiro wins there? I saw he could go all the things Big had listed that Remo could do?

[Jaden Korr]

Alright, starting with the water-jet. Remo Williams is able to survive a direct hit from it, and Chiun is able to redirect it with his bare hand.

The Destroyer #9

https://i.imgur.com/0APLCdC.jpg

As I noted before this water-jet is powerful enough to destroy the San Andreas fault line. Which is over a thousand kilometers in length.

Taken from Dr. Quake.

https://i.imgur.com/CFwBQuy.png

https://i.imgur.com/L6i5eru.png

https://i.imgur.com/1iKt4Zz.png

https://i.imgur.com/SAdWepG.png


In Next of Kin we see Remo fight the Dutchman. He clearly utilizes his telekinesis to destroy their surroundings, hits Remo with psychic energy and an invisible force several times, but Remo counters and breaks one of The Dutchman's shoulder. Then finishes the fight with his mantra. The only reason why the Dutchman even relied on illusions in their second fight in the Master's Challenge is because just blasting Remo didn't work last time. And as Remo notes in Master's Challenge it's everyone else who was in danger of getting blown to smithereens.

https://i.imgur.com/mepRBkw.png

https://i.imgur.com/Jc8WVNt.png

[Sharpandpointies]

This means the exact opposite of what you think it does. The fear bit is in regards to Jeremiah's illusions. Not his telekinesis.

Otherwise, inanimate objects are now capable of fear. And I am pretty sure mountains are not.

Okay, so it flat-out states - in the writing - that the only reason Purcell's stuff is working on him is because he feels fear. And what Purcell is doing to him at that point is REAL, not illusionary. Remo ends up cut up by Purcell's powers, and the cuts remain.

Even on the next page, it states "He was covered with the wounds he had permitted in his fear, but the knives were gone."

So, you can argue that it's just the illusions, but the writing in the book clearly doesn't back it up. And nowhere in the book is there any sign of Purcell absolutely hammering Remo with mountain-blasting force. So much for that being proof of Remo's durability. In fact, Purcell does start to level force that's noted as being 'shockwaves from a nuclear explosion' on Remo and Chiun and it starts messing up Remo and Chiun (so much for them being able to withstand mountain-busting force), only it gets ablated by H'si T'ang, who holds a similar kind of power as Purcell.

Which is the only reason they survive, as written in the book.

So we've got two things, here.

1. Remo shrugging off Purcell's stuff, presented by you earlier as him being able to ignore Purcell's stuff, only it's explicitly stated that it's just because he doesn't feel fear...and later does feel fear, and Purcell's stuff works on him just fine; Edit: in fairness, we DO see that if people believe in Purcell's illusions, they cause damage, so there's that.
2. Remo getting hit by a wave of 'pure energy' from Purcell that's flat-out going to kill him until H'si T'ang steps in. Said pure energy being of less force than mountain busting.

Either way, I'm see scratch zero evidence that Remo can tank mountain-busting stuff, based on the Purcell stuff from Destroyer #55.

Frankly, based on the feats - some of which are looking pretty solid - it's clear Remo wins against Kenshiro, on speed if nothing else. I'm just here to discuss the veracity of some of these feats. Like this one.

I'm cool with the Dutchman having mountain-busting PK, at least, in #55. That's pretty clear.

What I'm not cool with is the idea that Remo actually resists said mountain busting PK (as you say he does in your opening post), when every time we see Purcell's PK working on him (slicing him up like knives, for example, or assuming that part is illusion, hammering him with a wave of pure force that is flat-out killing Remo), it's working just fine.

[Sharpandpointies]

Also, this is directed towards Sharp but Time Trial. The book where the laser feat was?

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Trial-De.../dp/1944073817

It was number 53.

I highly doubt the Ground Zero feat where Remo outruns neutrons is an outlier. As the other feat happened thirty books prior.

https://www.amazon.com/Destroyer-084.../dp/0451169344

Now this is a valid point (I don't believe Time Trial is in my collection *checks* nope). Frankly, given Remo's lack of lightspeed whatever any other time in the series to this point, I personally feel it's a ridiculous feat that Murphy clearly didn't think over a lot, but given the stuff far later in the series, sure, why not?

The 'skirting the edges of a neutron explosion where the neutrons are still moving' makes more sense with that, anyway.

[Jaden Korr]

Okay, so it flat-out states - in the writing - that the only reason Purcell's stuff is working on him is because he feels fear. And what Purcell is doing to him at that point is REAL, not illusionary. Remo ends up cut up by Purcell's powers, and the cuts remain.

Even on the next page, it states "He was covered with the wounds he had permitted in his fear, but the knives were gone."

You're forgetting one important thing. The Dutchman's illusions are so advanced that if you are convinced they're real they will be for you at the very least. It's not that they are real. It's that they create an elaborate placebo effect. It's that placebo effect that causes you harm. As I already addressed that if was purely based on fear then he wouldn't be able to use his powers on inanimate objects at all.

So, you can argue that it's just the illusions, but the writing in the book clearly doesn't back it up.

It literally does. He doesn't actually use his psychokinesis, and uses his illusions instead to convince Remo Williams that things that are not happening to him are happening to him.

Which brings me back to the placebo effect.

And nowhere in the book is there any sign of Purcell absolutely hammering Remo with mountain-blasting force.

In Next of Kin he does, and the only reason he relies on illusions is because Remo has actually got him beat in terms of raw power.

So much for that being proof of Remo's durability.

Already addressed this, and you're seriously arguing that when Remo and Chiun can survive and compete with a water-jet that can sink California by destroying the San Andreas fault line?

Do you even know what kind of yield that would have? That's either in the gigatons of TNT or teratons of TNT.

In fact, Purcell does start to level force that's noted as being 'shockwaves from a nuclear explosion' on Remo and Chiun and it starts messing up Remo and Chiun (so much for them being able to withstand mountain-busting force), only it gets ablated by H'si T'ang, who holds a similar kind of power as Purcell.

The fact they survive it at all for a time is a testament to their durability, and Remo Williams survived it just fine in Next of Kin. And if they were really weren't illusions then it would in fact be Jeremiah's psychokinesis instead that he endured, and in The Line of Succession H'si T'ang isn't there to help them at all.

Which is the only reason they survive, as written in the book.

They would have survived anyway because a nuclear explosion is not enough to kill them as early on as Dr. Quake.

1. Remo shrugging off Purcell's stuff, presented by you earlier as him being able to ignore Purcell's stuff, only it's explicitly stated that it's just because he doesn't feel fear...and later does feel fear, and Purcell's stuff works on him just fine;

Which means it's PIS due to Remo Williams own doubt in his ability. His fear makes him weaker, and without that fear he is powerful enough to ignore what Jeremiah is capable of. Which means the PIS wasn't in favor of Remo. It was in favor of The Dutchman.

2. Remo getting hit by a wave of 'pure energy' from Purcell that's flat-out going to kill him until H'si T'ang steps in.

Which only disorientated him in Next of Kin, and he proceeded to beat Jeremiah earlier. Despite him using his psychokinesis against him, and there being no H'si T'ang in sight.

Either way, I'm see scratch zero evidence that Remo can tank mountain-busting stuff, based on the Purcell stuff from Destroyer #45.

What this shows me is that of the feats I presented you understood the scale of almost none of them. Them dying to a nuclear explosion at this point would in fact be PIS, and as Death of the Author literally at play here? We go by feats, and not PIS like Jeremiah surviving his encounters with Remo.

Frankly, based on the feats - some of which are looking pretty solid - it's clear Remo wins against Kenshiro, on speed if nothing else. I'm just here to discuss the veracity of some of these feats. Like this one.

You so far tried to prescribe a weakness to The Dutchman's ability which wouldn't make sense as telekinesis doesn't care about fear. Then tried in the same breath to say that Remo can't endure it. By saying he actually endured it, and is only subject to it due to the fact his fear holds back his true potential.

I'm cool with the Dutchman having mountain-busting PK, at least, in #45. That's pretty clear.

He's powerful enough to bust planets now by The Line of Succession, and Remo Williams still beat him.

What I'm not cool with is the idea that Remo actually resists said mountain busting PK, when every time we see Purcell's PK working on him (slicing him up like knives, for example), it's working just fine.

He could do it as early on as book five, and the only reason neutron bombs are even a threat to them is because of the radiation poisoning. As established in Ground Zero. And not due to the concussive force.

[Sharpandpointies]

You're forgetting one important thing. The Dutchman's illusions are so advanced that if you are convinced they're real they will be for you at the very least. It's not that they are real. It's that they create an elaborate placebo effect. It's that placebo effect that causes you harm. As I already addressed that if was purely based on fear then he wouldn't be able to use his powers on inanimate objects at all.

Actually, I did note that above in an edit to the post you're quoting. Feel free to check it out.

It literally does. He doesn't actually use his psychokinesis, and uses his illusions instead to convince Remo Williams that things that are not happening to him are happening to him.

Which brings me back to the placebo effect.

Fair enough on the knives.

Already addressed this, and you're seriously arguing that when Remo and Chiun can survive and compete with a water-jet that sink California by destroying the San Andreas fault line?

Given, as I understand, the water-jet is designed specifically to do what it does by actually manipulating the fault into a seismic event rather than just blasting California into the sea, yeah.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong - I have been already, re the lasers. You have a citation for the entire explanation of how the thing works? Because I'm pretty sure they would have gotten into that in the novel.

The fact they survive it at all for a time is a testament to their durability, and Remo Williams survived it just fine in Next of Kin. And if they were really weren't illusions then it would in fact be Jeremiah's psychokinesis instead that he endured, and in The Line of Succession H'si T'ang isn't there to help them at all.

Sure. That's in Line of Succession. Which, okay, different book, later Remo, and if he has feats for withstanding Purcell specifically using his PK on him trying to wreck him, sure. We're good for that book.

I'm specifically, again, talking about the feats from Master's Challenge. That book does establish Purcell as being a mountain-buster (I know, LOS goes further and I'm cool with that, it's pretty explicit he's a fair ways beyond that in LOS), but in no way does Master's Challenge have Remo eating that level of force.

They would have survived anyway because a nuclear explosion is not enough to kill them as early on Dr. Quake.

If Quake's water laser wasn't some very powerful but still pseudo-science 'create seismic event' thing, I'm down with that. I mean, it's pretty clear I've undersold Remo on a bunch of things. So let's see a full description of how it's going to work.

Which means it's PIS due to Remo Williams own doubt in his ability. His fear makes him weaker, and without that fear he is powerful enough to ignore what Jeremiah is capable of. Which means the PIS wasn't in favor of Remo. It was in favor of The Dutchman.

This is not actually what PIS means. Remo feeling fear, which leaves him vulnerable to the illusions, isn't PIS. Remo isn't some guy who is utterly immune to fear, and he has felt fear before and after this book.

And it's explicit in the book that if you don't feel fear of Purcell's illusions, they don't work on you. It's not something intrinsic to Remo's power level.

Which only disorientated him in Next of Kin, and he proceeded to beat Jeremiah earlier. Despite him using his psychokinesis against him, and there being no H'si T'ang in sight.

Any notation on it in Next of Kin about that actually being on the level of a nuclear explosion. No, seriously. Next of Kin is with a much younger Purcell, who is noted in Master's Challenge at having come to the full of his abilities, with Chiun utterly horrified by how he has turned out (Chiun having already met the guy before).

What this shows me is that of the feats I presented you understood the scale of almost none of them. Them dying to a nuclear explosion at this point would in fact be PIS, and as Death of the Author literally at play here? We go by feats, and not PIS like Jeremiah surviving his encounters with Remo.

I'm specifically saying 'based on the Purcell stuff from Destroyer #55'. If the water laser thing turns out to be 'that laser can just blast California away, no manipulation of seismic events or whatever', then sure, they have feats for it. Clearly I've missed stuff in the series, I'm perfectly willing to admit that. But as of the feats in Destroyer #55, Remo doesn't get hit with mountain-busting stuff in that particular story, which was what I was discussing.

He's powerful enough to bust planets now by The Line of Succession, and Remo Williams still beat him.

Yes, the feat you have from that book conclusively makes the point that he is far beyond mountain busting. And if he's creating flares visible from a distance of 'Venus', then sure, maybe even planet-busting. Either way, a good deal beyond mountains.

Does he actually withstand Purcell's PK when Purcell is in his 'I'm invincible!' planet-busting frame of mind?

He could do it as early on as book five, and the only reason neutron bombs are even a threat to them is because of the radiation poisoning. As established in Ground Zero. And not due to the concussive force.

Okay! So, please send in the passage on how the water laser will actually cause California to go boom. If you've already done that, let me know and I'll go back and find it.

[Sharpandpointies]

Shoot, if I'm wrong here, I'm wrong. I just need to see it.

[Jaden Korr]

Actually, I did note that above in an edit to the post you're quoting. Feel free to check it out.


Fair enough on the knives.

I am talking about the wounds. In fiction illusions can in fact cause a person physical harm due to them being so convinced they were hurt that their body changes to reflect that. Mind over matter. Conversely, being hypnotized into getting super powers or on the extreme end of scale somebody in Morrowind being lectured on how they don't actually exist. Then proceeding to disappear into a puff of smoke since the argument made was a good one.

Given, as I understand, the water-jet is designed specifically to do what it does by actually manipulating the fault into a seismic event rather than just blasting California into the sea, yeah.

The kind of earthquake you would need would require a ludicrous amount of kinetic energy. You would need something much higher than a magnitude of ten point five, and even that requires 84802435285.3 tons of TNT.

https://www.easycalculation.com/othe...-explosion.php

I mean, maybe I'm wrong - I have been already, re the lasers. You have a citation for the entire explanation of how the thing works? Because I'm pretty sure they would have gotten into that in the novel.

I posted that earlier in the thread.

Taken from Dr. Quake.

https://i.imgur.com/CFwBQuy.png

https://i.imgur.com/L6i5eru.png

https://i.imgur.com/1iKt4Zz.png

https://i.imgur.com/SAdWepG.png

Sure. That's in Line of Succession. Which, okay, different book, later Remo, and if he has feats for withstanding Purcell specifically using his PK on him trying to wreck him, sure. We're good for that book.

They went neck to neck, and Jeremiah Purcell was not holding back. Are you seriously arguing that by feats even a Shiva empowered Remo Williams is weaker than The Dutchman, and the only reason he won all his fights is because of PIS? Since that's what this is beginning to feel like.

I'm specifically, again, talking about the feats from Master's Challenge. That book does establish Purcell as being a mountain-buster (I know, LOS goes further and I'm cool with that, it's pretty explicit he's a fair ways beyond that in LOS), but in no way does Master's Challenge have Remo eating that level of force.

If those wounds are not illusions like you claim they are, and Remo ultimately defeats Jeremiah? Why exactly would Remo Williams not scale to that? At that point he was no longer being protected either, and in The Line of Succession there's nobody there to protect him either. It's also established that to be a vessel of Shiva or Kali you must be tough enough to actually house their power. We see this with vessels of Kali who break down because they're not appropriate ones.

If Quake's water laser wasn't some very powerful but still pseudo-science 'create seismic event' thing, I'm down with that. I mean, it's pretty clear I've undersold Remo on a bunch of things. So let's see a full description of how it's going to work.

It was meant to hit the San Andreas fault line, and cause a mega earth-quake that would have sunk California. However, as I already established the energy required for mega earth-quakes to happen is ridiculous and in the realm of gigatons of TNT.

This is not actually what PIS means. Remo feeling fear, which leaves him vulnerable to the illusions, isn't PIS. Remo isn't some guy who is utterly immune to fear, and he has felt fear before and after this book.

It most certainly does. When the plot doesn't understand the significance of feats that's also PIS. For example. It being a big deal for Son Goku early on to train at ten times Earth's gravity back with King Kai. Which is ridiculous. At that point ten times Earth's gravity would have been nothing. Even a hundred or three-hundred times gravity is catastrophically low for what he's actually capable of at that point. The plot was being a silly goose, and the writer didn't realize it.

And it's explicit in the book that if you don't feel fear of Purcell's illusions, they don't work on you. It's not something intrinsic to Remo's power level.

Citation needed that this was for anyone other than Remo Williams. As it worked perfectly fine on hundreds of different people in The Line of Succession.



Why it did effect literally everyone else if something as simple as being fearless would make you immune? Is everyone there just a giant coward?

Any notation on it in Next of Kin about that actually being on the level of a nuclear explosion. No, seriously. Next of Kin is with a much younger Purcell, who is noted in Master's Challenge at having come to the full of his abilities, with Chiun utterly horrified by how he has turned out (Chiun having already met the guy before).

The end of the book has him disintegrate Nuihc's castle. Taking the type of destruction into account, and what his castle was made out of (and the size of it) you're at least getting something in the realm of kilotons of tnt. So yeah, it would be within the yield of a nuke. Disintegration requires a lot of energy, and this not just some person he's disintegrating.

I'm specifically saying 'based on the Purcell stuff from Destroyer #55'. If the water laser thing turns out to be 'that laser can just blast California away, no manipulation of seismic events or whatever', then sure, they have feats for it.

So, you also don't understand how much of a yield earth-quakes like this require? I already provided a link above. Even tiny earth-quakes need kilotons of TNT equivalence to actually happen. This one was supposed to sink California to the bottom of the ocean, and would require some sort of mega earthquake.

Clearly I've missed stuff in the series, I'm perfectly willing to admit that. But as of the feats in Destroyer #55, Remo doesn't get hit with mountain-busting stuff in that particular story, which was what I was discussing.

He's able to beat The Dutchman, and by your own admission it wasn't an illusion. When he got hurt by those psychic "knives" there. You do know the fact he survived that and didn't disintegrate considering how powerful Jeremiah's psychokinesis is? That means he's super-humanly durable enough that he can endure it but not completely ignore it.

Yes, the feat you have from that book conclusively makes the point that he is far beyond mountain busting. And if he's creating flares visible from a distance of 'Venus', then sure, maybe even planet-busting. Either way, a good deal beyond mountains.

Except for some reason you believe Jeremiah was holding back against Remo? You do know he can apply his psychokinesis to physically amp himself as well, right? Just like how practitioners of sinanju rely on energy manipulation. He's also a practitioner of sinanju, and he combines that his natural psychic ability. Nuihc taught him.

Does he actually withstand Purcell's PK when Purcell is in his 'I'm invincible!' planet-busting frame of mind?

They literally go all out against each other, and it doesn't look like Jeremiah Purcell is holding back. Remo even makes use of his mantra again. What would even be the point of relying on Shiva otherwise?

Okay! So, please send in the passage on how the water laser will actually cause California to go boom. If you've already done that, let me know and I'll go back and find it.

Specifically by blasting the San Andreas fault line with it, and causing such a massive earthquake that it gets destroyed. Which would have caused California to go the way of Atlantis.

[Jaden Korr]

Shoot, if I'm wrong here, I'm wrong. I just need to see it.

Taken from Prophet of Doom.

Basically, the Pythia prevents Remo from returning to his body. He holds his own against it. Apollo steps in but then that's when Shiva appears, and gives him a taste of his lingham. Also, during the fight Remo generates energies equivalent to a supernova against the Pythia. It notes that this wasn't visible externally but that's because the fight was actually happening in another dimension. As Remo's soul struggled to get back to his body.

https://i.imgur.com/isjXmbq.png

https://i.imgur.com/aZOxYHN.png

https://i.imgur.com/jhFvwhm.png

https://i.imgur.com/t8lRrhi.png

[big_adventure]

I am talking about the wounds. In fiction illusions can in fact cause a person physical harm due to them being so convinced they were hurt that their body changes to reflect that. Mind over matter. Conversely, being hypnotized into getting super powers or on the extreme end of scale somebody in Morrowind being lectured on how they don't actually exist. Then proceeding to disappear into a puff of smoke since the argument made was a good one.



The kind of earthquake you would need would require a ludicrous amount of kinetic energy. You would need something much higher than a magnitude of ten point five, and even that requires 84802435285.3 tons of TNT.

https://www.easycalculation.com/othe...-explosion.php



I posted that earlier in the thread.

Taken from Dr. Quake.

https://i.imgur.com/CFwBQuy.png

https://i.imgur.com/L6i5eru.png

https://i.imgur.com/1iKt4Zz.png

https://i.imgur.com/SAdWepG.png




They went neck to neck, and Jeremiah Purcell was not holding back. Are you seriously arguing that by feats even a Shiva empowered Remo Williams is weaker than The Dutchman, and the only reason he won all his fights is because of PIS? Since that's what this is beginning to feel like.



If those wounds are not illusions like you claim they are, and Remo ultimately defeats Jeremiah? Why exactly would Remo Williams not scale to that? At that point he was no longer being protected either, and in The Line of Succession there's nobody there to protect him either. It's also established that to be a vessel of Shiva or Kali you must be tough enough to actually house their power. We see this with vessels of Kali who break down because they're not appropriate ones.



It was meant to hit the San Andreas fault line, and cause a mega earth-quake that would have sunk California. However, as I already established the energy required for mega earth-quakes to happen is ridiculous and in the realm of gigatons of TNT.



It most certainly does. When the plot doesn't understand the significance of feats that's also PIS. For example. It being a big deal for Son Goku early on to train at ten times Earth's gravity back with King Kai. Which is ridiculous. At that point ten times Earth's gravity would have been nothing. Even a hundred or three-hundred times gravity is catastrophically low for what he's actually capable of at that point. The plot was being a silly goose, and the writer didn't realize it.



Citation needed that this was for anyone other than Remo Williams. As it worked perfectly fine on hundreds of different people in The Line of Succession.



Why it did effect literally everyone else if something as simple as being fearless would make you immune? Is everyone there just a giant coward?



The end of the book has him disintegrate Nuihc's castle. Taking the type of destruction into account, and what his castle was made out of (and the size of it) you're at least getting something in the realm of kilotons of tnt. So yeah, it would be within the yield of a nuke. Disintegration requires a lot of energy, and this not just some person he's disintegrating.






So, you also don't understand how much of a yield earth-quakes like this require? I already provided a link above. Even tiny earth-quakes need kilotons of TNT equivalence to actually happen. This one was supposed to sink California to the bottom of the ocean, and would require some sort of mega earthquake.



He's able to beat The Dutchman, and by your own admission it wasn't an illusion. When he got hurt by those psychic "knives" there. You do know the fact he survived that and didn't disintegrate considering how powerful Jeremiah's psychokinesis is? That means he's super-humanly durable enough that he can endure it but not completely ignore it.



Except for some reason you believe Jeremiah was holding back against Remo? You do know he can apply his psychokinesis to physically amp himself as well, right? Just like how practitioners of sinanju rely on energy manipulation. He's also a practitioner of sinanju, and he combines that his natural psychic ability. Nuihc taught him.



They literally go all out against each other, and it doesn't look like Jeremiah Purcell is holding back. Remo even makes use of his mantra again. What would even be the point of relying on Shiva otherwise?



Specifically by blasting the San Andreas fault line with it, and causing such a massive earthquake that it gets destroyed. Which would have caused California to go the way of Atlantis.

OK, just a little comment on the tone here: you seem to be both getting angry about and projecting a response onto what Sharp is saying/asking about the water connon feat. Sharp isn't saying that the cannon is NOT emitting enough force to do whatever. What he's saying, and being pretty polite and clear about, is that the cannon might not be/is not necessarily simply operating on physical force, thus it might not be possible to simply extrapolate an earthquake equivalent amount of force from the predicted (and also never realized) result. He's just asking for something that validates that it's a pure physical force attack, and not some pseudo-science thing that doesn't rely on force.

If the cannon is sold as "this makes an explosion equivalent to 8 gigatons of TNT" then fine, that's what it's doing. If it's sold as "the magic powerful water flow has a magical powerful effect on fault lines causing them to trigger and sink California" then it's not the same thing. He's just asking for validation of one or the other, if it's present.

On the Purcell thing TK, again, he's not saying that Purcell is specifically or consciously holding back. What PIS means, in the context of combat, is that one of the characters in the fight isn't going all out with the most damage that they possibly can do, and the reason can only be attributed to the plot. Nearly every time Captain Boomerang actually throws one of those things in a Flash comic is PIS, because Flash lives lifetimes in the time it would take the human-speed guy to do so. It happens all the time. So everyone here stips to the fact that Purcell is definitely capable of MASSIVE TK. If, however, he doesn't use that directly on Remo, it's because the author doesn't want Remo to die in that scene. Purcell has used a bunch of stuff on Remo, but, absent the proof, he hasn't used mountain-busting or planet-busting TK on Remo. So Remo doesn't get "can resist planet-busting force" as a feat, simply because he has faced a guy with that kind of power, if that guy never used the power on him. I believe Sharp is just looking for the force to be better quantified in the situations where the Dutchman is pounding Remo specifically with TK.

[Jaden Korr]

OK, just a little comment on the tone here: you seem to be both getting angry about and projecting a response onto what Sharp is saying/asking about the water connon feat. Sharp isn't saying that the cannon is NOT emitting enough force to do whatever.

The water-jet only does two things. It absorbs vibrations. It then fires a concentrated and extremely highly pressurized stream of water. There's no magic to it outside of that. It's just simple kinetic energy directly at a tiny point. Hence why it's also called a water laser. Besides that, against the larger one we see it siphon off the vibration of the entire state. It seems to be brute force, and energy.

If the cannon is sold as "this makes an explosion equivalent to 8 gigatons of TNT" then fine, that's what it's doing. If it's sold as "the magic powerful water flow has a magical powerful effect on fault lines causing them to trigger and sink California" then it's not the same thing. He's just asking for validation of one or the other, if it's present.

It's not magical. The person who invented it is a scientist. It should be pretty clear that it should be operating through some sort of conventional means. Unless the technology involves reality warping but then I will start having to bring up how Chiun can break into a fictional version of our world and threaten the publishers of the books and comic books.

On the Purcell thing TK, again, he's not saying that Purcell is specifically or consciously holding back. What PIS means, in the context of combat, is that one of the characters in the fight isn't going all out with the most damage that they possibly can do, and the reason can only be attributed to the plot.

In nearly every occasion Jeremiah Purcell is either bloodlusted or completely bonkers, and Nuihc specifically refused to teach him self-control in order to make him a natural disaster just waiting to happen... and a better weapon to use against Chiun. As Nuihc only saw him as a tool, and a means to an end. He's barely capable of holding himself back, and his power is constantly in danger of killing everyone around him.

[Jaden Korr]

Yes, this is a thing that actually happened. They re-issued the first book. Chiun was the person who wrote the forward, and the publishers were too terrified to do anything about him. He has a measure of toon force about him, or as I like to call it... racism force. It's one of his most powerful qualities.





There was also that time he confronted an employee of Marvel, and forced him to confess his sins.

[Jaden Korr]

The Korean is the most perfect creature in the universe. Chiun will tell you this.







There's also that time he tried to help someone turn everyone on the planet into Koreans. Besides being Remo's teacher? He's also arguably his greatest enemy. It's great.

https://i.imgur.com/B9drsxI.png

https://i.imgur.com/JY3xOKi.png