Star Trek: Discovery

[Carabas]

when did i say i was upset about anything?

Well, you have been going on about it for a while now.

[nx01a]

I also have to give credit to DISC (that's how I'll abbreviate it from now on) for both creating the ultimate lens flare AND having it be a meaningful part of the story.

I like the show, I signed up with CBS Access and I am about to watch those first 2 episodes again. I like Sonequa Martin-Green, she is my Commander, she can nerve pinch me anytime she wants. I liked Michelle Yeoh's performance as the Captain, and it was refreshing to see two women in command at the very beginning of the series. I also liked how the captain and commander walked in certain directions so that they created that huge Starfleet Delta symbol as a sign that the Shinzhou could see.
IF this show survives (and I really hope it does), I wonder if we'll get to see Commander Burnham promoted to Captain at some point (like Sisko on DS9). Then again, she's in a lot of trouble now career-wise, so who knows. Maybe she can get her rank back somehow. After all, Kirk was in a lot of trouble after he disobeyed a direct order from a superior officer and stole the Enterprise in Star Trek III, but was only punished slightly (being busted back down to Captain, which is what he loved being anyway) because he and his crew saved Earth in Star Trek IV.
Also, the first Star Trek: Discovery novel was released today:]

Kirk had a lifetime of saving the Federation (and existence) to back up his 'insubordination'. We know nothing of what Michael and the Shenzhou accomplished in her 7 years aboard. It's about who you are... plus the results. If Georgiou had survived and the Klingon cult leader captured, things would most likely have gone very differently for Burnham. Instead it was a complete cluster and Burnham got slammed even harder because of it. I don't see her gaining any kind of command position again unless she's yet another superior's personal project, aka Lorca's.

[Carabas]

I don't see her gaining any kind of command position again unless she's yet another superior's personal project, aka Lorca's.

And had a LOT of therapy to get over what happened to her parents.
Which Sarek should have done ages ago instead doing it the Vulcan way: just suppress it. That went fine for a while until she is unexpectedly confronted with the source of her trauma and completely falls apart.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

What do you guys think of the actor portraying Sarek? Of course Mark Leonard put his stamp on the role first. Ben Cross was solid in JJ Abrams ST. This particular actor I'm not too sure about.

[nx01a]

And had a LOT of therapy to get over what happened to her parents.
Which Sarek should have done ages ago instead doing it the Vulcan way: just suppress it. That went fine for a while until she is unexpectedly confronted with the source of her trauma and completely falls apart.

Definitely, and her breakdown was foreshadowed by the scene in the Learning Academy where she does just that at the mention of the incident that killed her parents. She really needs Troi... or at least Ezri... in her life. Vulcans are the last people to help anyone get over traumas unless they mind meld and psychically order your thoughts.

What do you guys think of the actor portraying Sarek? Of course Mark Leonard put his stamp on the role first. Ben Cross was solid in JJ Abrams ST. This particular actor I'm not too sure about.

He's cold and emotionless yet subtly expressive when required. He's far better than almost every Vulcan in ENT... but they weren't enlightened about Surak's true teachings yet.

[Jokerz79]

Wait, so you're okay with the way technology looked in Enterprise, but you feel the disconnect with Discovery was too great? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as this:

looks more modern than this:

It's not about the technology in resemblance to today technology. Enterprise looked closer to our tech and that's cool because it was human technology. The 23rd century was Human Mixed with Alien so who knows what effect that would have inn the aesthetic of technology. Once alien tech was introduced and became TOS era tech there is a clear progression thru the films from TOS to TNG. I'd have no issue with Discovery if in Kelvin Timeline because it looks like that or if said in another period of time outside of TOS or any established era like if it was I the 25th century.

[MichaelC]

They claim that they are making the Klingons more complex, but if anything they have simplified them greatly. They used to be a blend of Russian, Viking, and Mongol, with some Native-American spirituality thrown in. Now they are just orcs with the motivations of religious nut terrorists.

[nx01a]

They claim that they are making the Klingons more complex, but if anything they have simplified them greatly. They used to be a blend of Russian, Viking, and Mongol, with some Native-American spirituality thrown in. Now they are just orcs with the motivations of religious nut terrorists.

Ah, for the days of the Xindi willing to commit xenocide for their very survival, not for the survival of their way of life.

[Jokerz79]

I did not actually have a clue about what the deal was with the bumpy TNG Klingons.

I'm seriously surprised humans were involved.

On Enterprise in season 4 they did a 3 parter with Brent Spiner playing an ancestor of Noonian Soong which involved augmented humans from the genetic wars. Then they did a two parter where the Klingon Empire got their hands on the Arguments DNA and it led to the ridgless look of TOS. Honestly Enterprise season 4 was really good until the finale I got issues with it but it was sad it got cancelled but then again it went off on a high note IMO.

[Vic Vega]

There is an episode in TOS where Kirk's ex girlfriend switchs bodies with him because she couldn't become a Captain because of her gender. Well, now Discovery comes along and throws out all that established canon! There can't be a female captain if TOS said so, they don't respect canon!!

Seriously though, I don't know how fans of comic books cannot understand the need for readjustments, if not outright total reboots, oh wait, I remember how people blew their lid over the New 52.

The original canon isn't Holy Writ.

At times it makes no sense.

That particular episode was crap up there with Spock's Brain.

If Number One (a woman) was second in command on Pike's Enterprise then the assumption would be that she could command and was next in line to do so.

Otherwise you'd have a situation where say, Pike could die in an emergency and then the ship would be commanded by the Doctor (according to Trek's command structure) passing over Marjet Barret's No. 1 because she's a woman.

That's stupid...canon or not.

There was going to be an intergalactic incident whether she was there or not.

This.

The Klingons were in the middle of having a cultural revival/pushback. They were going to make an example of the first Federation ship they came across no matter what. The Captain had already made the determination that they couldn't just flee.

They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing they could have done since they couldn't just run away would have changed anything.

Kirk gets to escape no win situations because he has Plot Armor.

That doesn't mean no win situations don't exist in the future.

[Sighphi]

Well, you have been going on about it for a while now.

Made a total of 2 posts before you complained. 2.

i jump into this dicussion correcting a person using the ENT captain. That's all i have done in two posts. Explained how the female captain thing may still actually be lore because the ENT stuff doesnt really count based on a couple of factors.

I never said i was for it or against it all i did is try to make sense of it.

2 posts.

If Number One (a woman) was second in command on Pike's Enterprise then the assumption would be that she could command and was next in line to do so.

If there were rules against this then commander would be the highest possible rank.

Otherwise you'd have a situation where say, Pike could die in an emergency and then the ship would be commanded by the Doctor (according to Trek's command structure) passing over Marjet Barret's No. 1 because she's a woman.

That's stupid...canon or not.

Pretty sure in an emergency situation the commander would take over command but the discussion isnt about this. After the emergency was over the ship would get a new captain assigned.

[MichaelC]

The original was retconned because women not being allowed to command was dumb writing. I don't have a problem with that sort of retcon.

[Deadxman]

no it because a woman using methods from a culture that wasn't her own. Thought it was logical to mutiny, assault a superior officer, and be the aggressor in an intergalactic incident.

BTW What Vulcan thought it was a good idea to "shoot first"? Enterprise Vulcans weren't that stupid.

[thwhtGuardian]

It's not about the technology in resemblance to today technology. Enterprise looked closer to our tech and that's cool because it was human technology. The 23rd century was Human Mixed with Alien so who knows what effect that would have inn the aesthetic of technology. Once alien tech was introduced and became TOS era tech there is a clear progression thru the films from TOS to TNG. I'd have no issue with Discovery if in Kelvin Timeline because it looks like that or if said in another period of time outside of TOS or any established era like if it was I the 25th century.

There's really no reason to create some convoluted theary as to why the tech in Enterprise looks like what we imagined the future would look like back in the early 2000's but the Tech in TOS looks antiquated. I mean really, the tech in TOS doesn't look like Alien tech mixed with human tech at all...it looks like what someone in the 60's would imagine a computer might look like in the future. It's all analogue controls and light bulbs on a personal console, making it a smaller, personal version of this:

Which is what a computer looked like 1965. And it's the same for TNG, let's not pretend it's further alien intigration in the operating system but just accept that they took what computer screens looked like in the 80's and based the future on that: making the clunky, sharp edged early graphic interface:

rounder and giving it brighter colors and a touch screen:


It's all wholly based on what the future might look like at the time the show is being created, and while moving the show forward like TNG did gives you a sense of advancement that wasn't the real reason the technology changed. It changed because a show about the future in the 1980's would have looked out dated if it had mechanical controls which were already out dated in the 80's so they needed to update the look. And it's the same thing with Enterprise; the computer interfaces look more modern than TOS and TNG with it's brightly colored, high definition graphic interface...but this time the show is actually set in the "past" but it's still the future for us so the creators had to give us something that jives with what a modern mind would imagine a computer to look like in the future as again making it look more antiquated than the mechanical control interface of TOS is out of line of what computers are today so there's no reason to believe the future would look that way.

I suppose they could stick to the outdated tech look out of a sense of nostalgia...but why when it's very easy just to accept that the shows are products of their times and just roll with it.

[Carabas]

no it because a woman using methods from a culture that wasn't her own.

How is it not her culture when she was raised in that culture?