Star Trek: Discovery

[thwhtGuardian]

I'm with Cyke and Zero, I thought this was a pretty solid episode. The character interactions this season are shaping up to be really strong, which has been a flaw in the past and I like that while the ongoing plot of finding the Federation is pertinent in each episode it is flexible enough to allow for more episodic adventures like the Trek shows of yore.

[Anthony W]

I'm also concerned with the dumbing down of Saru. I just don't get how he doesn't seem at all concerned that the ship is now sentient or becoming sentient. That is something you/engineers look into before the dinner party/Buster Keaton movies. The audience knows that the shp is friendly, but he doesn't.

[Cyke]

I'm with Cyke and Zero, I thought this was a pretty solid episode. The character interactions this season are shaping up to be really strong, which has been a flaw in the past and I like that while the ongoing plot of finding the Federation is pertinent in each episode it is flexible enough to allow for more episodic adventures like the Trek shows of yore.

That reminds me, this episode kind of evoked Voyager for me. Not that Voyager was the only show that did this (of course not), but having an entire society (or at least their most important leadership) be against the crew and yet befriending one lone member of that society be enough to have that leadership change their minds and allow the crew to save the day (and thus fundamentally change a planet's society) was pretty pronounced and regular on Voyager. TNG and the others occasionally had those types of episodes, but it'd be natural for Voyager to encounter that type of plot more often considering they have no Federation diplomats around.

With that said, in the past I tended to groan about those episodes, but here it does feel like a return to that type of Trek, which is oddly comforting in its familiar way.

[sunofdarkchild]

The trill plotline was very disappointing, but the Discovery side was actually quite good. The problem wasn't even Michael. It was that the Trill just acted as the plot demanded and not as characters, so everything about them was unnatural and there was no flow or really a reason for their change of heart.

The plot about the crew collectively suffering the results of what they've been through might be the best Discovery's had. Despite what Roddenbery sometimes tried to portray on TNG, the people of the future are still human, and its when they're at their most human that we connect with them.

[Anthony W]

The trill plotline was very disappointing, but the Discovery side was actually quite good. The problem wasn't even Michael. It was that the Trill just acted as the plot demanded and not as characters, so everything about them was unnatural and there was no flow or really a reason for their change of heart.

The plot about the crew collectively suffering the results of what they've been through might be the best Discovery's had. Despite what Roddenbery sometimes tried to portray on TNG, the people of the future are still human, and its when they're at their most human that we connect with them.

The dinner party would have been better if Burnham was there. I found it amusing that Detmer tore into Stamets for in her words "superhero bull$***" while Michael actually flew around in an Iron Man suit

I also like (hate) how Saru did whatever the AI told him to do. Dinner party? Sure. Get the entire bridge crew down to the shuttle bay to watch a movie? Okay as long as you promise that you aren't an evil sentient AI and suck them into space.

Sigh.

[Cyke]

This episode had a really great, really bright start (reminding me of the optimism of Starbase Yorktown in Beyond, my favorite scene in all the Abrams films), but the away mission kinda turned that around. I'm indifferent to Nhan leaving, but yes, they did treat her departure just like Airiam. It doesn't matter if they showed a recap of that Airiam episode and if anything, it was almost a spoiler in its foreshadowing that a secondary character with little to do gets the axe. I do hope she returns some day, though.

Also, David Cronenberg (yes, THE David Cronenberg) totally owned Georgiou. At first I was in disbelief that she could deactivate the holograms like that, but the way he set her up making her overestimate her wittiness and confessing that he's an expert on the MU only to drop that bombshell really shows how those holograms were a trap.

While we're at it, yes, I would *love* to see David Cronenberg do something with Trek. Do it, you cowards!

I'm empathizing more with Saru as the season goes on. He's a solid captain but even though he admires and respects Burnham, he's getting increasingly close to just plainly saying she's insubordinate. Sure, she'll quickly acknowledge that she speaks out of line, but that's always after the fact.

I really don't buy that the 31st century officers are so witless compared to the Discovery crew. Having one of them be the recipient of technobabble exposition is a bit unbelievable. The finest scientists and engineers of a thousand years ago could provide some advice to today's scientists and engineers, but modern knowledge is so much broader that the ancient scientists are merely specialists then.

Hey, there's the USS Nog <3

Lastly, which medical officer goes on the away mission? Not the department head like past Treks, such as McCoy, Crusher, Pulaski, Bashir, etc. No, it's Culber. Again, if you're going to give him such active roles in these missions (which I absolutely endorse), just make him the ship's CMO already.

[DrNewGod]

I'm empathizing more with Saru as the season goes on. He's a solid captain but even though he admires and respects Burnham, he's getting increasingly close to just plainly saying she's insubordinate. Sure, she'll quickly acknowledge that she speaks out of line, but that's always after the fact.

Agreed. While I like a Number One having the agency that was largely stripped from Riker from TNG S4 on, it's overdone here. I like Burnham, and I get that she's the star, but it grates a bit.

I really don't buy that the 31st century officers are so witless compared to the Discovery crew. Having one of them be the recipient of technobabble exposition is a bit unbelievable. The finest scientists and engineers of a thousand years ago could provide some advice to today's scientists and engineers, but modern knowledge is so much broader that the ancient scientists are merely specialists then.

1000 years ago isn't a good comparison for today, because that was the heart of the dark ages, but scholars from the Renaissance were probably more broadly knowledgeable than today's scholars, who are vastly more specialized. We tend to know more about less today.

I could also see that the Starfleet of Disc's future has hunkered down in some respects, with less interest in basic science and exploration than in mastering engineering and defending their boarders. I'm with you that the 31st Century minder should have been a bit quicker on the uptake, but somebody had to be the exposition target, and they needed a vehicle for demonstrating the Discovery crew had a contribution to make to Star Fleet.

Hey, there's the USS Nog <3

Lastly, which medical officer goes on the away mission? Not the department head like past Treks, such as McCoy, Crusher, Pulaski, Bashir, etc. No, it's Culber. Again, if you're going to give him such active roles in these missions (which I absolutely endorse), just make him the ship's CMO already.

Sending the CMO into every Planet Of Death a starship orbits made as little sense to me as sending the Captain. Aside from the fact they've got supervisory tasks aboard, what you need at the point of action is triage and first aid. You'd want your top healer safe, where they can better treat survivors, rather than where they're likely to need a healer themselves.

In real military-based hierarchies, one of the reasons more junior leaders take point (unless you're looking at a case where a more senior leaders have got to motivate followers to charge into danger) is that they're gaining experience so that they can train future junior leaders themselves. Of course, real-life organizational leadership doesn't make for good high adventure television on a weekly basis.

[Anthony W]

Nhan like Miriam and original Georgiou before her gets the red shirt treatment. Sure, this episode did a better job of disguising it than Airiam's sendoff (that was brutal) but she still got the red shirt special.

If any of the bridge crew not named Saru or Burnham get character development they are as good as dead. Which means Detmer is toast, Burnham vouched for her this episode. Her dying will give everyone an excuse to cry and hug. Star Trek Discovery is all about crying and hugging.

This show is also all about great visuals and this episode was filled with them. This is definitely the best looking Trek show.

Anyone find it strange that they had to ask for the password for the seed ship? No one thought to just ask Starfleet for the password before they left? Seems kind of important. Or couldn't they bring some tech that could just take over the seed ship's systems

[Cyke]

1000 years ago isn't a good comparison for today, because that was the heart of the dark ages, but scholars from the Renaissance were probably more broadly knowledgeable than today's scholars, who are vastly more specialized. We tend to know more about less today.

But even specialization today does not mean exclusion. Some of the best architects and engineers are also experts in relationships. To be a good astronomer you need to be a good logician. To be a lawyer may require knowing medicine depending on your expertise. Many doctors are practiced musicians. Artists are often historians in their own right. And some the most prominent scientists today double as philosophers. If anything, increased specialization in a field requires some holistic and oftentimes intersectional approach to their work, in order for their scientific knowledge to grow.

I know Saru was trying to make a point about his Dark Ages/Renaissance analogy, but that was about hope, not knowledge, and the crew was showing themselves off to be better experts than Starfleet's own wheelhouse. And it was in direct contrast to the crew's collective jaws dropping at 32nd century Starfleet.

Sending the CMO into every Planet Of Death a starship orbits made as little sense to me as sending the Captain. Aside from the fact they've got supervisory tasks aboard, what you need at the point of action is triage and first aid. You'd want your top healer safe, where they can better treat survivors, rather than where they're likely to need a healer themselves.

In real military-based hierarchies, one of the reasons more junior leaders take point (unless you're looking at a case where a more senior leaders have got to motivate followers to charge into danger) is that they're gaining experience so that they can train future junior leaders themselves. Of course, real-life organizational leadership doesn't make for good high adventure television on a weekly basis.

And here we have the clash of Trek tradition/demands of tv vs real world. I don't disagree that logistically it's unsound, but really, you could make the same argument of any senior staff position (including chief of security!) on an away team, especially for Voyager when officers were in short supply (and even in TNG where half the cast would go to conferences together, leaving the ship for weeks on end). While yes, the main away team is meant to highlight our characters and give them more screen time, it's also a way to highlight seniority, both in character prominence (meta) and in-show. In both cases, that's still Culber over Pollard, and so the show treats Culber as the CMO per Trek tradition without actually giving him that position.

If we apply that real world restriction to Culber, then by the same token, Burnham and Nhan shouldn't be there (at least not as the initial away team) either because they're department heads coordinating their subordinates, only going once the place is secured and relatively safe enough to require application of their expertise.

[DrNewGod]

And here we have the clash of Trek tradition/demands of tv vs real world. I don't disagree that logistically it's unsound, but really, you could make the same argument of any senior staff position (including chief of security!) on an away team, especially for Voyager when officers were in short supply (and even in TNG where half the cast would go to conferences together, leaving the ship for weeks on end). While yes, the main away team is meant to highlight our characters and give them more screen time, it's also a way to highlight seniority, both in character prominence (meta) and in-show. In both cases, that's still Culber over Pollard, and so the show treats Culber as the CMO per Trek tradition without actually giving him that position.

If we apply that real world restriction to Culber, then by the same token, Burnham and Nhan shouldn't be there (at least not as the initial away team) either because they're department heads coordinating their subordinates, only going once the place is secured and relatively safe enough to require application of their expertise.

That's fair, it just didn't bug me as much.

[Sutekh]

If any of the bridge crew not named Saru or Burnham get character development they are as good as dead. Which means Detmer is toast, Burnham vouched for her this episode.

I don't hate this show, but it is very much the Burnham show. I would love for Detmer and Owo to get transferred to Pike's ship so they have a slim chance in hell of character development and more of a plot than 'must get fridged so that we can see how sadface Burnham gets over their death.'

[DrNewGod]

Does anybody else gloss over things in Disc by assuming this parallel but separate universe from TOS?

[Cyke]

That's fair, it just didn't bug me as much.

Well, I suppose part of the reason why it does bug me isn't just how Culber is portrayed contrary to other shows, but also too that he's one of those cases where a recurring character gets upgraded to regular character, too. It was great to see that in DS9 (or even outside of Trek, like Fraiser and Lilith Crane in Cheers, Donna Moss in the West Wing, Andy Dwyer on Parks & Rec, etc) and it's great to see that here as well, but in-universe that should become official since he hits almost all the check marks.

Or to sum up, dear writers: Dr. Culber deserves to be senior staff, dammit.

Does anybody else gloss over things in Disc by assuming this parallel but separate universe from TOS?

Personally, I don't, but the massive time jump means that, at least to me, that's much more possible now. There really is nothing to stop a sequel to Picard or just the TNG/DS9/VOY era in general from just setting their own path that diverges from the 32nd Century, and I imagine it'd be doubly complicated to write a show that's a sequel to 90s Trek but also a prequel to Discovery S3.

I will give Discovery credit, though, in the sheer amount of context it draws from Enterprise S3. It's rather specific (which is nice to see from a canon consistency standpoint), when really they didn't need to go down that route either.

[DrNewGod]

What, exactly did that interrogator do to Phillipa? She doesn't strike me as the type to crack under the strain of having a personal secret stripped bare.

[Anthony W]

What, exactly did that interrogator do to Phillipa? She doesn't strike me as the type to crack under the strain of having a personal secret stripped bare.

Told her that the Terran empire fell and that the distance between their universes is expanding. What is with all disrespect shown to holograms? Philliipa is allowed to torture two and the overseer doesn't stop her. Nhan barks "Throw me in the brig Hologram!" after being a total jerk for no reason. These holograms are supposedly more advanced than The Doctor from Voyager who evolved to the point where he wanted equal rights but now this far into the future they are just treated like appliances. I guess Kurtzman trek only respects Androids who summon eldritch monsters to wipe out humanity.

Is anyone else freaked out that everyone is cool with the ship becoming sentient?