Superman vs Bills

[Primetime Harder]

Yeah, I did it.

1) Bills vs. Post-Crisis Superman, in deep interstellar space. Starting 20 feet from each other.

2) Bills vs. Nu52 Superman, in the Arena.

[Matt the Manly]

No idea about NuSupes( is he fast enough?). Post Crisis wins. FTL/ pressure pointing/ black hole containing strength FTW

[Anarchist]

Post-Crisis Superman is not FTL. He, like any other Post-Crisis Flying Brick, has Near-Light-Reflexes.
And his Strength is around Moonbusting.

[Matt the Manly]

Post-Crisis Superman is not FTL. He, like any other Post-Crisis Flying Brick, has Near-Light-Reflexes.
And his Strength is around Moonbusting.

Post Crisis Superman has a bunch of FTL feats. And he has been part of teams that have moved the earth/ moon etc. Thats way above moon busting

[The Drunkard Kid]

Post Crisis Superman has a bunch of FTL feats. And he has been part of teams that have moved the earth/ moon etc. Thats way above moon busting

He has a bunch of FTL travel feats, with him specifically noting that he can't react at those speeds. At one point, he was able to form one thought in the time it took him to reach the sun, which kinda underlines that.

As I understand it, he was not strong enough to contain a black hole. He was strong enough to power the forcefield that contained the micro black hole, with the help of a GL, IIRC. And the black hole in question was a comic book black hole, so its use as a measuring stick is kinda wonky since Batman survived sufficient exposure to its gravitational effects to experience spaghettification, but snapped back to normal when it got under control despite the fact that spaghettification isn't an optical effect but what is actually done to things sucked in by black holes.



I don't even know where to begin.

[Daenarys Stormborn]

20 feet is probably a bit too close. Increase the distant a few fold and Superman would most probably just fly away until he reaches the nearest system with a yellow sun.

Scenario 2- Superman is too slow, lacking energy tanking feats, lacking vibration style you can't touch me stuff, and has heat vision without the old hype. He's stronger and can maybe take a punch better, but it won't help against the opponent he's up against.

[Daenarys Stormborn]

I think a closer fight would probably be Bills Vs H'el with BFR removed. H'el got the versatility and was supposedly stronger than superman.
Also for the above, I meant Scenario 2 SM is stronger than Scenario 1 Superman and not Bills.

[Matt the Manly]

He has a bunch of FTL travel feats, with him specifically noting that he can't react at those speeds. At one point, he was able to form one thought in the time it took him to reach the sun, which kinda underlines that.

Nope he has a bunch of FTL reaction feats, including at one point overcoming time dilation that froze time in fractions of a nanosecond. As I understand we go by high end consistent feats here, so if he has about 4 or 5 FTL feats isn't that good enough to qualify as a FTL dude?

As I understand it, he was not strong enough to contain a black hole. He was strong enough to power the forcefield that contained the micro black hole, with the help of a GL, IIRC. And the black hole in question was a comic book black hole, so its use as a measuring stick is kinda wonky since Batman survived sufficient exposure to its gravitational effects to experience spaghettification, but snapped back to normal when it got under control despite the fact that spaghettification isn't an optical effect but what is actually done to things sucked in by black holes

I don't even know where to begin.

As you said: Comic Book Physics...hence Superman can contain Black holes which have already turned Batman to weird lines
And no, superman produced static electricity/John Stewart produced a magnetic field later , after the Atom specifically advised them to do so. The initial explosion was contained by Superman alone, albeit with great effort
As to how strong the Black hole was, The Atom earlier in the issue said it would wipe out the Solar system

[Surtur]

Post Crisis Superman has a bunch of FTL feats. And he has been part of teams that have moved the earth/ moon etc. Thats way above moon busting

I guess people get moonbusting from the one feat where he rams into a "shadow moon" and KO's himself destroying it. Though he of course has held back the weight of the moon on his own and him and GL moved the planet so..not sure what type of "busting" that puts him at.

Scenario 2- Superman is too slow, lacking energy tanking feats, lacking vibration style you can't touch me stuff, and has heat vision without the old hype. He's stronger and can maybe take a punch better, but it won't help against the opponent he's up against.

NuSupes was lightspeed last I checked, and Bills isn't above that in anything other then travel speed that I recall. He also doesn't need to necessarily have "energy tanking" feats. We don't compartmentalize durability. He's shown he is durable enough to take hits from people on his strength level.

[The Drunkard Kid]

In that scan, Superman was trying to contain an object whose leakage was treating his and Batman's durability the same, by compressing it in his hands, which should do nothing to stop it from emitting gravity, which is how it was doing all its damage.

So, either Superman was doing something weird with the magnetic field, or that feat is so nonsensical that its tossed out right alongside Superman and Captain Marvel teaming up to lift an object with infinite mass, which Superman's alternate universe self Ultraman was able to lift by himself.

[Pendaran]

No idea about NuSupes( is he fast enough?). Post Crisis wins. FTL/ pressure pointing/ black hole containing strength FTW

abandoned all pretense eh? So when Superman is put on par with Jay Garrick and has otherwise needed Flash to speed him up to go ftl, Superman jobbing right out? Beyond that, when did Superman contain a black hole?

Nope he has a bunch of FTL reaction feats, including at one point overcoming time dilation that froze time in fractions of a nanosecond. As I understand we go by high end consistent feats here, so if he has about 4 or 5 FTL feats isn't that good enough to qualify as a FTL dude?

Not when he's marked out as slower on various occasions, explicitly and repeatedly, in comparison to both ftl speedsters, and in comparison to people whose speed tops out at light, and beyond that, issue number for the "time dilation" there?

[Pendaran]

As you said: Comic Book Physics...hence Superman can contain Black holes which have already turned Batman to weird lines
And no, superman produced static electricity/John Stewart produced a magnetic field later , after the Atom specifically advised them to do so. The initial explosion was contained by Superman alone, albeit with great effort
As to how strong the Black hole was, The Atom earlier in the issue said it would wipe out the Solar system

The field around it had not yet fully collapsed, he was grabbing it through it, that's the glow right there. He then only ever held it with green lantern's help afterwards, what you are saying is not what happened. You are the sort of person for why this scene required to be mod ruled again and again on the old board.

Alternatively, does Superman's hand normally glow orange?

[Pendaran]

Here's the very next page

http://postimg.org/image/s92luy499/

At what point in that was Superman ever containing the dust speck sized black hole on his own?

We only ever see him holding it through its still there but faltering containment field, or with green lantern's help. They do the magnetic field thing two pages later.

[Matt the Manly]

abandoned all pretense eh? So when Superman is put on par with Jay Garrick and has otherwise needed Flash to speed him up to go ftl, Superman jobbing right out? Beyond that, when did Superman contain a black hole?

No....its then a case of Superman being slightly slower than light as opposed to being slightly faster than light. The rules say "highend consistent feats. So if its a case of Superman being slightly slower than light on a couple of occasions as opposed to being faster than light on another couple of occasions, which feats should be chosen?

And why do you keep bringing up an issue where entire sentences were spoken between before the beam was even released as proof of superman being slower than light? There can be surely better instances than that. This being the same arc where Flash needed to speed lend Supes and Jonn to be faster than thought

Not when he's marked out as slower on various occasions, explicitly and repeatedly, in comparison to both ftl speedsters, and in comparison to people whose speed tops out at light, and beyond that, issue number for the "time dilation" there?

Action comics 642. He has been marked out as slower than Flash on a number of occasions. Slower than Flash doesn't necessarily mean slower than light

[Matt the Manly]

The field around it had not yet fully collapsed, he was grabbing it through it, that's the glow right there. He then only ever held it with green lantern's help afterwards, what you are saying is not what happened. You are the sort of person for why this scene required to be mod ruled again and again on the old board.

Alternatively, does Superman's hand normally glow orange?

Supermans hand is glowing because he held a glowing black hole in his hand
I didn't even get the first part. Dude held a black hole from breaking througj, something that would have destroyed the solar system . Even if he did it momentarily thats a huge feat