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  1. #256
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I agree that sucks.

    What i don't like is when all the 'haters' get thrown together. I can't stand the concept of Riri because

    1) She's too young to be catapulted to the front of the genius line. Make her smart.. but at her age, she should never automatically be anywhere near able to reverse engineer the most sophisticated technology in the world.. which has specific countermeasures SPECIFICALLY to prevent that. Heck, I've never really seen Rhodey show that kind of ingenuity and he's flown those armors for years... The 'instant genius' trope just irks me. Same complaint i have with Moon girl and Valeria Richards. That's just weak storytelling.

    2) Tony would never ever ever EVER do anything like that. I think I counted it up one time and there was over 4 years and 50 issues between Rhodey joining the cast, and him being allowed to wear the armor. His protectiveness of his tech is his #1 defining trait.

    Race and gender have zero to do with my hatred for Riri. They could have given the book to Pepper, to Rhodey's niece, Even to Suri if Black Panther and Tony are currently tight.... but random strangers you just meet... just Bad.

    HECK... Riri could have STOLEN the tech and just claimed the book like Doom did. That at least wouldn't be out of character for Tony.


    As for death threats.... that sucks on every level. They're just comic books people need to get over themselves. That said, don't assume all death threats are because 'a black girl exists'. Some might be, there are some crappy people out there.... but I remember when Hal Jordan was replaced by Kyle and the whole H.E.A.T. had some raging passion going on too. Ron Marz reported a LOT of hate mail and calls to have him fired and i even believe a few death threats and there was no racial issue there at all. Just horribly misguided passion for a fictional character.
    Shouldn't Valeria be a mutant or something, I feel like she's too smart to be a regular human. I know it's comics and all but still.
    Reading list: Far Sector (DC), Marauders (Marvel), X-Force (Marvel), X-Men (Marvel), Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Venom (Marvel), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Killadelphia (Image), Bitter Root (Image), Black Hammer: Age of Doom (Darkhorse)

  2. #257
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    Shouldn't Valeria be a mutant or something, I feel like she's too smart to be a regular human. I know it's comics and all but still.
    Frankly I don't think Franklin should be a mutant. His parents gained powers from cosmic rays... tying him to the x-gene is weird. But yeah, everytime i hear that Valeria's intelligence is NOT because of any powers... I just roll my eyes. Reed and Doom at least worked their butts off to be the hyper-geniuses they are... Having a kid show them up is just... ughhh...

  3. #258
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Frankly I don't think Franklin should be a mutant. His parents gained powers from cosmic rays... tying him to the x-gene is weird. But yeah, everytime i hear that Valeria's intelligence is NOT because of any powers... I just roll my eyes. Reed and Doom at least worked their butts off to be the hyper-geniuses they are... Having a kid show them up is just... ughhh...
    I consider Franklin to be a god, I know he's a mutant but I never really associate him with them. It's just one of those things that never clicked with me.
    Reading list: Far Sector (DC), Marauders (Marvel), X-Force (Marvel), X-Men (Marvel), Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Venom (Marvel), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Killadelphia (Image), Bitter Root (Image), Black Hammer: Age of Doom (Darkhorse)

  4. #259
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Like I said YJ and TT have many members:

    YJ has:
    Miguel
    Teen Lantern
    Jackson
    Jinny Hex
    Naomi

    TT:
    Damian
    Djinn
    Roundhouse
    Wallace
    Crush
    Emiko

    Its possible that Static will also join YJ in future.
    Nubia gets back in a Comic

    Iris and Jai West are back now

    Steel (female version) was in Titans..
    Over the past 20 years or so DC has been pretty good at including more POC superheroes, but a huge problem is that they don't bother to put the work in to build up the character and they're quickly forgotten. Remember Grace Choi, Bunker, Solstice, Lorena Marquez (Aquagirl), etc. etc. etc. The only newer character i can see having any longevity is Naomi.

    With characters like Blue Beetle, Vibe, and Vixen they're missing an opportunity to make them regular faces in the DCU as they're already relatively well known. So that way when you see a group image of DC characters the only representation of minorities its not just half of Cyborg's face and John Stewart floating behind Hal.

    At least Mr. Terrific is used pretty regularly. Even though his team book is done, he'll probably always have a spot on the JSA. I'm also really glad they added Aqualad to the Teen Titans lineup. Not squandering his success from the Young Justice show.
    Last edited by Robotman; 07-09-2020 at 09:48 PM.

  5. #260
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I consider Franklin to be a god, I know he's a mutant but I never really associate him with them. It's just one of those things that never clicked with me.
    And that's more legit honestly. Reed and Sue are insanely powerful and have faced down heralds of Galactus before breakfast. Having their kids be up there with Silver Surfer and have those cosmic rays combine... Yeah, he should be his own special thing.

    Claiming that he's the same as the guy with gills or can talk to computers... always feels disenguine. He routinely creates alternate universes....

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I think Djinn left the Teen Titans.

    Nubia has a OGN coming.

    Steel was in Titans and was WASTED and where is she now.

    And everything still boils down to somone being ABLE to use them and if you ask many writers that has been the issue with many POC. Can't use them.
    Steel was such a bland character, she had no personality and barely did anything on that roster.

    I've seen people criticize Ironheart, but she has a personality(weird and eccentric)and does stuff

  7. #262
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I've seen people criticize Ironheart, but she has a personality(weird and eccentric)and does stuff
    I think Riri is much better now but she was terribly integrated into things when she was first introduced.

    Showing up out of seemingly nowhere, getting the keys to Iron Man almost immediately, and becoming a big deal and social media sensation when she hardly even did anything. All she did in Civil War II was fly around in an armor and suddenly the other teen heroes all love her. What was she even doing there?

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Riri is much better now but she was terribly integrated into things when she was first introduced.

    Showing up out of seemingly nowhere, getting the keys to Iron Man almost immediately, and becoming a big deal and social media sensation when she hardly even did anything. All she did in Civil War II was fly around in an armor and suddenly the other teen heroes all love her. What was she even doing there?
    Who was the writer of those Civil War books and Iron Man at the time????
    Also lets look at black females at both companies since say 2011. BOTH have given black females the middle finger.

    How many have come and gone in the last 9 years? How many held books-solo or mini or one shot? How many have been stuck in badly done books? Or did anything other than be background, the black friend to a white woman or warmed a man's bed?

    Shuri, Moon Girl and Riri all having books at one point marked the first time that many black females had books.

    And when folks are looking for books with certain representation-they are going to take who they can find the easiest. Cyborg being the exception.
    And one of her books had a variant of an actual black female owned comic book store-so that helped get attention.


    That is why folks are asking DC to do SOMETHING with these characters.

    Black Panther now has a BED ROOM SET.
    Miles Morales is leading another set of books for kids next year. And no is screaming they need to do the ICONS first like we hear around here.
    Not teen versions of Tony and friends-actual TEENS-who are not sitting in a second or third wave like Aqualad, Cass, Beast Boy, Raven and Nubia.

    Flooding the market with Batman is not solving this issue. Waiting on Milestone is NOT solving the issue.

  9. #264
    Astonishing Member kurenai24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I agree that sucks.

    What i don't like is when all the 'haters' get thrown together. I can't stand the concept of Riri because

    1) She's too young to be catapulted to the front of the genius line. Make her smart.. but at her age, she should never automatically be anywhere near able to reverse engineer the most sophisticated technology in the world.. which has specific countermeasures SPECIFICALLY to prevent that. Heck, I've never really seen Rhodey show that kind of ingenuity and he's flown those armors for years... The 'instant genius' trope just irks me. Same complaint i have with Moon girl and Valeria Richards. That's just weak storytelling.

    2) Tony would never ever ever EVER do anything like that. I think I counted it up one time and there was over 4 years and 50 issues between Rhodey joining the cast, and him being allowed to wear the armor. His protectiveness of his tech is his #1 defining trait.

    Race and gender have zero to do with my hatred for Riri. They could have given the book to Pepper, to Rhodey's niece, Even to Suri if Black Panther and Tony are currently tight.... but random strangers you just meet... just Bad.

    HECK... Riri could have STOLEN the tech and just claimed the book like Doom did. That at least wouldn't be out of character for Tony.


    As for death threats.... that sucks on every level. They're just comic books people need to get over themselves. That said, don't assume all death threats are because 'a black girl exists'. Some might be, there are some crappy people out there.... but I remember when Hal Jordan was replaced by Kyle and the whole H.E.A.T. had some raging passion going on too. Ron Marz reported a LOT of hate mail and calls to have him fired and i even believe a few death threats and there was no racial issue there at all. Just horribly misguided passion for a fictional character.
    The fact that you have hatred for a comic book character just on the basis that she wasn't introduced in the way that you like and/or the writers didn't do your idea(s) is an issue all into itself; I mean you don't even see the irony in you expressing the OTT anger you have for this character and the OTT anger usually reserved for characters of color for the most mundane things, and believe me the reasons you have for hating, not disliking, but hating the character is mundane, irrational, and juvenile.
    Last edited by kurenai24; 07-11-2020 at 09:54 AM.

  10. #265
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    Especially since Tony Stark, Black Panther, Beast, Hank Pym, Reed Richards, and Bruce Banner all first appeared as master geniuses.

    Moon Girl, Nadia Pym, Val Richards (as she is now) and Riri were all made because Marvel realized they had no heroic female geniuses like those above.

    Let’s not forget characters like John Henry Irons and Kyle Rayner were just strangers too.
    Last edited by Will Evans; 07-11-2020 at 10:03 AM.

  11. #266

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    I really wish DC would just do an "All New, All Different" era and commit to it for more than a year. The last big diversity push they did was DCYou and the sales were crazy low. Though, that probably had more to do with mimicking that shallow Batgirl of Burnside run than having characters change.
    I still miss Renee Montoya. Oh, and I'm a dude.

  12. #267
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    The social media response to this image highlighted the issue. A lot of the comments pointed out that while the list is nice, a lot of these characters aren't being used anywhere and most have never had a series.


  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    The fact that you have hatred for a comic book character just on the basis that she wasn't introduced in the way that you like and/or the writers didn't do your idea(s) is an issue all into itself; I mean you don't even see the irony in you expressing the OTT anger you have for this character and the OTT anger usually reserved for characters of color for the most mundane things, and believe me the reasons you have for hating, not disliking, but hating the character is mundane, irrational, and juvenile.
    Poster has given some logical reasons why he doesnt like the use.of the character in the story. Youre just choosing to call them irrational and then make a tatty innuendo about racism and the poster.

  14. #269
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Who was the writer of those Civil War books and Iron Man at the time????
    Also lets look at black females at both companies since say 2011. BOTH have given black females the middle finger.

    How many have come and gone in the last 9 years? How many held books-solo or mini or one shot? How many have been stuck in badly done books? Or did anything other than be background, the black friend to a white woman or warmed a man's bed?

    Shuri, Moon Girl and Riri all having books at one point marked the first time that many black females had books.

    And when folks are looking for books with certain representation-they are going to take who they can find the easiest. Cyborg being the exception.
    And one of her books had a variant of an actual black female owned comic book store-so that helped get attention.


    That is why folks are asking DC to do SOMETHING with these characters.

    Black Panther now has a BED ROOM SET.
    Miles Morales is leading another set of books for kids next year. And no is screaming they need to do the ICONS first like we hear around here.
    Not teen versions of Tony and friends-actual TEENS-who are not sitting in a second or third wave like Aqualad, Cass, Beast Boy, Raven and Nubia.

    Flooding the market with Batman is not solving this issue. Waiting on Milestone is NOT solving the issue.
    I...don't think this is actually addressing my point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Moon Girl, Nadia Pym, Val Richards (as she is now) and Riri were all made because Marvel realized they had no heroic female geniuses like those above.
    Isn't it kind of strange that they're all young girls? The only top scientist who actually appeared in the Wasp book about female scientists was Mockingbird and Scientist Supreme.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by armlessphelan View Post
    The last big diversity push they did was DCYou and the sales were crazy low.
    I would claim that the last push was actually New age of Heroes, which also didn't sell.

    And there was also the Vertigo relaunch, which was also a massive flop.
    Last edited by Aahz; 07-11-2020 at 01:09 PM.

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