Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Aahz]

As for Damian, it’s only been recently that they’ve brought up his Middle Eastern heritage, for the vast majority of his existence he’s been depicted as a mini Bruce Wayne, only difference being he has green eyes.

Even that is a retcon, originally Damian had Blue eyes.

[Aahz]

But overall Fergus raises an excellent point that DC is nowhere as savvy as Marvel so despite being ahead of them many times, don't know what they have and end up dropping the ball multiple times. Can you imagine the noise Marvel would have created by now if Peter Parker had a Middle Eastern child?

If that child was raised as a assassin, and in his first appearance beheads Mysterio and tries to kill Miles Morales making a lot of noise about what great representation of middle eastern Kids he is might not be the best idea.

And might also be kind of pointless if kids (and I guess not even teens) aren't the target audience for the comics he appears in in the first place. And aren't even that accessible new or casual readers.

[Fergus]

If that child was raised as a assassin, and in his first appearance beheads Mysterio and tries to kill Miles Morales making a lot of noise about what great representation of middle eastern Kids he is might not be the best idea.

And might also be kind of pointless if kids (and I guess not even teens) aren't the target audience for the comics he appears in in the first place. And aren't even that accessible new or casual readers.

Damian appears in multiple media that target kids and Casual fans. He is the 2nd most visible Robin outside of Dick. Both in the sheer number of other media material and in the range.

Below is a selection of material, For kids with Damian

The Supersons titles
The zoom Supersons
Lil' Gotham
Once upon Batman Tales
DC's one off scrrible nuts [both the book and the mini puzzle game]
Upcoming Batman, Robin and Jeremy

Animated tv show
DCSHG

Movies
The batman Unlimited Movies
Batman/TNmt
4 of the Batman/DC Lego movies

DC Kids online
Currently on the site's Be a Detective: Batman and Robin need help
Learning while having fun: Help Robin find the clues. Find all the hidden in the Bat cave activity.

DC kids Youtube channel

Batman unlimited shorts seasons 1 and 2
DCsHg

DC has other ways of giving kids access to Damian.,


Ahaz, are you Middle Eastern?

Damian has a large and thriving Arabian comics fans online. To them he is Positive Representation.

Not just fans but Writers. The [Turkish] Writer of the latest issue of Truth and Justice Twittered about how he has never had a chance to explore his heritage in any of his comics so he was proud that DC gave him the chance with Damian.

That's an OOf! How is DC this bad. Damian isn't Turkish [not sure if Truth and Justice is canon. If it it then Damian is Now Turkish ]

The writer putting a name to exact region Damian comes from in the story. Turkey so now there's discord as fans are pissed accusing the writer of trying to claim The one good Arabian Character who isn't a Terrorist.

The point is to them. The people he represents. He is positive representation. Regardless of the LOA, regardless of him being a mini Bruce, having blue eyes, beheading someone.


DC might not be making a big noise but the Arabian readers that have embraced him are.

To some readers posting on this thread,

While you don't see Damian as positive representation, Others do. So much so that they start a petition and a discuss thread when Writers attempt to 'claim him'
Here's a link and a snippet of the comments

https://milftalia.tumblr.com/post/65...-batboy-i-cant

I can’t believe that I bothered to correct him about Damian’s ethnicity over two months ago only for him to write a comic where Damian is referred to as “Anatolian.”


agents-of-fangirling
#bitch you had two months to fix that mistake#like I’m sorry that you never had a chance to explore being Turkish in your writing#but please leave one of the only three Arab DC Superheroes alone please#I swear we can’t have one non-terrorist Arab character without every brown person on Earth trying to claim them#I don’t want to be attacking him but something tells me that he’s fully aware that Damian is Arab#but he’s hoping that he could be slick enough to recton him to be Turkish without anyone noticing#because he will just be going from one MENA ethnicity to another#Damian Wayne via @arabian-batboy

okay but this is actually making me pretty mad. The line “we can’t have one non-terrorist Arab character without every brown person on Earth trying to claim them” is so true.

[b]This is the only popular actual Arab character who is a superhero. We can’t even have this????[b] And honestly **** DC for thinking “oh the writer is Turkish? Close enough” no, **** you. Damian is Arab, his mom is Arab, and his Grandfather is Arab. We don’t claim even a single retcon that changes that, I don’t care how “inclusive” it is.

Why are they going for the one Arab character and trying to make him fit every background? I’m all for being inclusive, but don’t just pick one brown character and try to throw every possible Asian background onto him. Create a new character ffs.

Arabs can never win when it comes to Western media it seems. No matter what.

Source: arabian-batboy
west asian ethnicities aren't interchangeable instead of fucking robbing arabs of their representation maybe make more diverse characters istg 😭
276 notes
Jun 22nd, 2021

[Fergus]

I’m not discounting anyone. All I’m saying is that counting Selina, Dick and Kyle (throwing him in there) as minorities is missing the point. They’re White characters who were retconned into another race in a specific run and then forgotten about there after. Only time it’s brought up is when fans are comparing Marvels success with POC to DC’s. Adding in those three makes DC look good, whereas if you remove them, Marvel slaughters DC.

[b]As for Damian, it’s only been recently that they’ve brought up his Middle Eastern heritage, for the vast majority of his existence he’s been depicted as a mini Bruce Wayne, only difference being he has green eyes[b].

And yet he's had a dedicated Middle Eastern fan base since he was 1st introduced.

They have been pushing for a visually ethnic Damian for a while but DC is .. well DC.

Dick and Selina might be retcons but there are Readers of colour who have welcomed those retcons and value them.

I'm sure we've all come across comments, asks on comics forums, Quora and Reddit from fans who remind, inform or claim him Dick as Romani.

My kids read Supersons. They know Robin is mixed like them. It's not brought up in the story and Damian looks white but my kids know and see him as a person of colour.

How do they know ? Lil'Gotham. it's doesn't have to be in every title or story. The one series was enough.

When readers are desperate for representation they are forced to take what scraps they can but they still value those scraps.

[iron chimp]

Its not DCs job to present positive role models. Its DCs job to tell commercially successful stories. When brits and irish went to write for dc, did they present positive british and Irish role models ? No they spewed out irreverent douchebags as characters from the uk and eire just like they did back home and usa audiences enjoyed it.

[skyvolt2000]

Its not DCs job to present positive role models. Its DCs job to tell commercially successful stories. When brits and irish went to write for dc, did they present positive british and Irish role models ? No they spewed out irreverent douchebags as characters from the uk and eire just like they did back home and usa audiences enjoyed it.

Nobody threw a fit about those books existing either.

Nobody went out of their way to belittle or demean those books either.

Hellblazer and Sandman were low floppy sellers. Yet both did very well as trades. Nobody dismissed that fact like they have tried with almost every POC trade out there.

How many of those writers got told by editors those characters HAD to be douchbags?

Scalped show Native Americans in a questionable light and the writer was Jason Aaron. Unknown Solider showed Africans in a questionable light. Nobody threw fits about them either.

Do we need to discuss 100 Bullets or DMZ? Also the majority of those folks were under the Vertigo banner.


The issue is not role models the issue is why is it a battle to build fully developed POC at both companies. Without someone trying to screw it up.

This is not an issue at other companies. Nobody is throwing fits about Boom's Eve, Seven Secrets, Vault's Relay, Resonant, Bitter Root, Motor Crush, Black Hammer. Fence, Backstagers, The Woods or Rivers of London.

[Common Writer]

Its not DCs job to present positive role models. Its DCs job to tell commercially successful stories. When brits and irish went to write for dc, did they present positive british and Irish role models ? No they spewed out irreverent douchebags as characters from the uk and eire just like they did back home and usa audiences enjoyed it.

I don't see how the two things can be mutually exclusive.

[Robotman]

I wouldn’t count Nightwing or Catwoman and Robin is debatable too. Those three are White the vast majority of the time and I wouldn’t compare them to the likes of John Stewart, Cassandra Cain or Jaime Reyes for instance.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of people including Nightwing in a list of DC's minority characters.

It's not great optics if this is your most prominent POC superhero:

[John Venus]

Middle Eastern and Arab fans latch on to Damian because he's the only representation they have, not because he is a good representation who managed to outshine everyone else. This extends towards the Al Ghul clan in general. Who else do they have? Black Adam? Osiris? Janissary? Nightrunner? Even Adam falls into the same problematic tropes as Damian since his whole thing is being excessively violent and needing to be kept in check by other (usually white) characters.

Meanwhile, Marvel is pushing Kamala Khan and once they get around to X-Men and Captain Britain, they'll have Dusk and Faiza Hussein as well.

[Agent Z]

Dick and Selina might be retcons but there are Readers of colour who have welcomed those retcons and value them.

And there are plenty more who don't and wish DC would do more with the minority characters who were created as minorities.

When readers are desperate for representation they are forced to take what scraps they can but they still value those scraps.

And why should they only have to settle for those scraps?

[Aahz]

Damian appears in multiple media that target kids and Casual fans. He is the 2nd most visible Robin outside of Dick. Both in the sheer number of other media material and in the range.

But this happend all alter, I was referring to Damians first appearance, since it was criticised that DC didn't make a big marketing push then.
And I don't think that Grant Morrison's Batman is particularly child friendly (or even good entry point for new readers).

The first child friendly book with Damian was iirc Lil Gotham that came out 3 years after he was introduced, and most of the other child friendly content came afiak out post flashpoint (and untill DCYou nothing was in the main continuity).

Btw. I can see why people see him as good representation now, but I don't think he was back than when he was introduced.

[Besouro]

Currently speaking, DC is truly trying HARD in the diversity front.

1) John Stewart, Jo Mullein, Simon Baz and the kid GL have an ongoing series

2) Aqualad is getting his series

3) Black Manta is getting his series

4) Shilo Norman Mr Miracle has a series

5) Calvin Ellis/President Superman is leading the Infinity Frontier and will be showing up more in the future

6) Jace Fox is "the Next Batman" with a series and another series to follow

7) New Brazilian Wonder woman has a series

8) Damian as Robin also has a series

All this in less than one year.

Guys, y'all can NOT tell me the DC is not trying hard and putting in effort towards diversity.

[iron chimp]

Nobody threw a fit about those books existing either.

Nobody went out of their way to belittle or demean those books either.

Hellblazer and Sandman were low floppy sellers. Yet both did very well as trades. Nobody dismissed that fact like they have tried with almost every POC trade out there.

How many of those writers got told by editors those characters HAD to be douchbags?

Scalped show Native Americans in a questionable light and the writer was Jason Aaron. Unknown Solider showed Africans in a questionable light. Nobody threw fits about them either.

Do we need to discuss 100 Bullets or DMZ? Also the majority of those folks were under the Vertigo banner.


The issue is not role models the issue is why is it a battle to build fully developed POC at both companies. Without someone trying to screw it up.

This is not an issue at other companies. Nobody is throwing fits about Boom's Eve, Seven Secrets, Vault's Relay, Resonant, Bitter Root, Motor Crush, Black Hammer. Fence, Backstagers, The Woods or Rivers of London.

people did throw very big fits... far worse than today. Drug addled, offensive, sexually explicit... a lot of people werent happy.

[Besouro]

Nobody threw a fit about those books existing either.

Nobody went out of their way to belittle or demean those books either.

Hellblazer and Sandman were low floppy sellers. Yet both did very well as trades. Nobody dismissed that fact like they have tried with almost every POC trade out there.

How many of those writers got told by editors those characters HAD to be douchbags?

Scalped show Native Americans in a questionable light and the writer was Jason Aaron. Unknown Solider showed Africans in a questionable light. Nobody threw fits about them either.

Do we need to discuss 100 Bullets or DMZ? Also the majority of those folks were under the Vertigo banner.


The issue is not role models the issue is why is it a battle to build fully developed POC at both companies. Without someone trying to screw it up.

This is not an issue at other companies. Nobody is throwing fits about Boom's Eve, Seven Secrets, Vault's Relay, Resonant, Bitter Root, Motor Crush, Black Hammer. Fence, Backstagers, The Woods or Rivers of London.

Which Unknown Soldier series showed Africans in a "questionable light"?!?

Are u referring to the black Unknown Soldier set in Uganda?!?

It's based on real event about the atrocities performed by Kony rebels in northern Uganda and the politics and issues surrounding it. The writer HIMSELF was in Uganda and what he wrote was NOT questionable when it's based on fact and it actually shows the struggles the affected Ugandans had while still promoting hope and faith in dire circumstances.

Wasn't the artist of that Unknown Soldier run also Ugandan, hired at the request of the writer himself?!?

Please don't just make assumptions without knowing the facts. I can't speak for any of the other comic series you mentioned because I have never read them so for now I will just take your word for it...cautiously.

[iron chimp]

I don't see how the two things can be mutually exclusive.

They dont have to be but the danger, imo, is that if everyone is supposed to be a "positive role model" you just end up with reskins of the 1000s of characters that have been and gone before just with a different pantone for the skin. That's not much a story - great guy/woman, something happens, the hero tries to stop it, fails, it gets worse, then hero rallys and does stop it, rinse and repeat. There isnt anything wrong with that story but there are already over 100 of those stories published every month. Just changing the ethnicity or gender or sexuality of the character isnt going to be enough to make it work imo. Those kind of ideas are already doomed for the 50c long boxes.