Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Assam]

It's a shame their non-white characters aren't doing the same, but maybe they'll think of something.

DC Employee: "Sir, I know this is a crazy thought, but what if we gave solo books to some of our POC characters who've held solo books for nearly or even OVER 100 issues? Several of their books weren't even cancelled for low sales!"

DC Exec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dtI2pNbLbg

[Samm]

Well first of all, you're leaving out a few minority characters at DC.
Justice League (stars the GLs); Hal Jordan stars John Stewart and Guy Gardner (gingers are a minority!) as well; Batman & The Signal starts in November, and Duke's been a major character in Snyder's Batman runs for the last four years; Batgirl and Batgirl and the Birds of Prey (do women count as minorities?); Batwoman and Detective Comics; nuWally has shown up in Teen Titans, Deathstroke, and Flash; Black Canary is the costar of Green Arrow; Harley Quinn; JLA is chock full of minority characters; Supergirl and Superwoman; and the Black Lightning and Mystik U mini's start in November.

That's called moving the goal post man. This thread was created to talk about racial minorities in comics not LGBT and females. I'm well aware of how well DC handles it's female and LGBT character's compared to Mavel.

Let's not bring up team books either because the difference between DC and Marvel is even greater!! Marvel has allowed Ms Marvel, Miles, Sam, ChoHulk on the Avengers and has even given them their own team! Sunspot has led the Avengers and X-Men. Monica has led the Avengers. Storm has led the X-Men. Then of course there's Black Panther, Falcon, Luke Cage, Shang Chi... etc Damn DC is so far behind!!

Blue Beetle will never be allowed in the JL, same with Static, let alone lead a team. Hell they can't even get Titans membership!! Vixen, John, Black Lightning, Fire, Vibe or Jessica leading the League? Forget about it!! Bumblebee or Mal leading the Titans? Never going to happen. Katana or Diablo leading the Squad? Just a pipe dream. DC's diversity is being seen but not heard!

Secondly, your reasoning is flawed. The only reason the top half of your Marvel examples do well is because of the title. If you take out all of those (and Green Lanterns, just to be fair), it looks like Marvel's in just about as bad of a position as DC, if not worse because they're so actively trying to push diversity. Personally, I couldn't care less about the skin color of the characters I'm reading, but for people that do, I don't really get how you can say that Marvel's pandering works better than DC's simply trying to make interesting and relatable characters.

EDIT: DC's got Batwoman headlining two books. Where's the LGBT representation at Marvel?

Look again!! Those low selling titles (apart from Luke Cage and America) are all in the 20+ range. They'll get relaunched soon. Whereas with DC when those titles get canceled, it's off to limbo with them. Hence why I started this thread.

[Jokerz79]

Now I want to say I love Ollie, Hal, and Barry this is not a knock on them and honestly since their returns they've gotten some of their best stories ever IMO. But the 00's and New 52 wasn't good for minority characters for the most part in the DCU there were some exceptions to this rule like Jaime Reyes.

The 90's started a trend of passing torches to more diverse characters Kyle Rayner was part hispanic and Connor Hawke was biracial but both were replaced by the men they had themselves replaced by writers who wanted to write the characters they grew up on. I hope this changes with more focus on former prominent minority characters in the future when kids who grew up on them enter the industry.

The New 52 hurt IMO because it always seemed DC went for headlines during this time without thinking about the consequences.

Now characters like Connor Hawke just disappeared and have never come back sadly outside of the name being an alias on Earth-2.

But you also had decisions like revamping the League's rooster which also now had less females and minority characters.

They make Alan Scott gay and erase his daughter and gay son.

They "de-fridge" Barbara Gordon but erase a disabled hero Barbara herself and two female heroes one a biracial character in Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown are erased and MIA until the end of New 52.

Minority and Female heroes of the Titans and Young Justice history are gone and unknown.

Minority and Female heroes of the JSA Legacy characters are Erased or MIA.

Hawk and Dove go from being two female characters back to a male and female.

Renee Montoya's time as Question is erased.

I hope with the continuation of Rebirth many of these character continue to return and return to some prominence again with the return of Legacy.

[mace11]

DC
Green Lanterns #28 -- 30,024
Green Lanterns #29 -- 29,451
Bane Conquest #4 -- 17,615
New Super-Man #14 -- 12,339
Blue Beetle #12 -- 11,574
Cyborg #15 -- 10,949

Marvel
Captain America #25 -- 40,428
Spider-Man #19 -- 30,387
Black Panther #17 -- 25,609
Totally Awesome Hill #22 -- 24,995
Infamous Iron-Man #11 -- 24,676
Ms Marvels #21 -- 17,010
Luke Cage #4 -- 12,330
America #6 -- 9,548
Moon Girl #22 --7,466

You left these out.
I think all of main cast is poc.
DC
Gotham Academy Second Semester-12 6,572

MARVEL
Nick Fury 5-9,145

It's a mini-series anyway like bane conquest.
TEAM BOOK
Black Panther Crew 5-11,587
Black Panther Crew 6-11,435


If you include the star wars books
Star Wars Doctor Aphra 11-36,472
Star Wars Doctor Aphra Annua 1-34,473

She looks like euro-asian asian in art i have seen and she is lgbt.

and
Star Wars Poe Dameron 18-33,443


Note-
Bane: Conquest
Twelve issue mini-series

[mace11]

As for the health of the books, none of them are in all that great of shape. 40k is not that good for a book named after a flagship character and 30k is awful for Spiderman (there are about 7 other Spiderman related books ahead of it right now), meanwhile GL is right around 30k as well which tends to be the point where companies start to wonder if it's worth keeping the book around.

These days comics selling 40k to 30k is really good,so you incorrect about that.It's not 80's or 90's anymore for example.
Above 50k these days is great.
Standards have changed.

Everything else is in cancellation territory and is likely on the chopping block, except Black Panther due to the movie that is about to come out. Normally I'd throw Cyborg in there as well but those #s are so low that I doubt even the JLA movie will save it.

A book in 20,000's in not in cancellation territory these days.
Below 20k was cancellation territory a few years but now it's between below 17k to 11k.
Standards have changed.

[El_Gato]

This thread got me curious to see where both companies stand as far as solo issues led by minorities stand.

DC
Kyle Rayner- 170
Cassandra Cain- 85
John Stewart- 79
Blue Beetle- 67+
Steel- 53
Static- 53

Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz will likely join the 50+ club soon. Icon is close (42 issues) but I don't see him getting a solo series anytime soon, likewise with Batwing (David). Cyborg and everyone one else are too far off from this milestone to consider.

Marvel
Luke Cage- 160+
Black Panther- 145+
Shang Chi- 110
Miguel O'hara- 82
War Machine- 64
Miles Morales- 61+

Sam Alexander, Ms Marvel and Falcon will likely join the 50+ club as well since all of them are incredibly close. Daken is close (40 issues) as well but I don't see him getting a title anytime soon. Everyone else is too far off or haven't held a title in a long time to consider.

[Assam]

Cassandra Cain- 73

Actually, since you're not just comparing single volumes, Cass is at 85 , putting her above John.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

DC comics will always be Decidedly Caucasian comics. You can't effect change from the bottom up. It must happen from the top down. Those at the top are decidedly Caucasian. It's almost been fifty years ago when Neal Adams had to fight to breath life into John Stewart. How is John Stewart doing in 2017?

[El_Gato]

Actually, since you're not just comparing single volumes, Cass is at 85 , putting her above John.

Where does the extra 12 come from? I'm curious. Did she take over a title (co lead) or have a mini?

[Assam]

Where does the extra 12 come from? I'm curious. Did she take over a title (co lead) or have a mini?

A six issue mini, a four issue mini/crossover with Dark Horse's Ghost, a Secret Files and Origins issue, and another one-shot.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

A six issue mini, a four issue mini/crossover with Dark Horse's Ghost, a Secret Files and Origins issue, and another one-shot.

Pin a rose on DC.

[El_Gato]

A six issue mini, a four issue mini/crossover with Dark Horse's Ghost, a Secret Files and Origins issue, and another one-shot.

Yeah I found them upon looking. I'll revise my numbers haha. It can be pretty difficult to count everything so thanks for the correction.

[Rac7d*]

Well if static can come back and if vixen could get her own title book along with john stewart

Cybory was never popular enough for his own solo, he still shouldnt be on the league ans was put their for tokenism
so he can just continue to dwindle in sales, hopefully the JL movie will boost him

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Hawkman is returning. Will DC go with the white reincarnated Egyptian origin or the white Thanagarian origin. The latter is more preferably. Less insulting too.

[Sodam Yat]

Well if static can come back and if vixen could get her own title book along with john stewart

Cybory was never popular enough for his own solo, he still shouldnt be on the league ans was put their for tokenism
so he can just continue to dwindle in sales, hopefully the JL movie will boost him

With Geoff Johns in charge, having one or two black-led titles is more than enough to them.

This thread got me curious to see where both companies stand as far as solo issues led by minorities stand.

DC
Kyle Rayner- 170
Cassandra Cain- 85
John Stewart- 79
Blue Beetle- 67+
Steel- 53
Static- 53

Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz will likely join the 50+ club soon. Icon is close (42 issues) but I don't see him getting a solo series anytime soon, likewise with Batwing (David). Cyborg and everyone one else are too far off from this milestone to consider.

Marvel
Luke Cage- 160+
Black Panther- 145+
Shang Chi- 110
Miguel O'hara- 82
War Machine- 64
Miles Morales- 61+

Sam Alexander, Ms Marvel and Falcon will likely join the 50+ club as well since all of them are incredibly close. Daken is close (40 issues) as well but I don't see him getting a title anytime soon. Everyone else is too far off or haven't held a title in a long time to consider.

To be just a little bit precise, I don't think Kyle's comic issues before issue #150 counts. Only because he wasn't created as a minority/biracial character when Ron Marz created him. All of that happened in issue 150, which was in the HOG story line. So that's about over 100 issues of viewers perceiving the character as a non-minority.