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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    They could rotate the character on the League, like JLU did. When they wanted to prop a character they would just have to do more stories with him on the JL.
    Problem is that Justice league has at this point mainly become a constant event book that revolves around the big six.
    Using that to prop up a new character without that it feeling completely undeserved (or doing any kind of character development) is really hard.

  2. #332
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    http://fav.me/de1930k

    I thought about an all black Legion of Doom. One that would match up to the famous version from Superfriends. Easy right?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
    The link is the group drawing I did.

    The roster-

    Tobias Whale (Based on his comic version not tv one?)
    Black Manta
    Lightweaver (whose powers mirror a Green Lantern interesting enough it was Guy who killed him)
    Iceberg (Resurrection Man New 52 run)
    Black Spider
    Bleak Michael (New 52 Batgirl foe)
    Father Last (Batwing villain-David version not Luke)
    Painkiller (Black Lightning villain)
    Peek-A-Boo (not the tv version)
    Bamboo Monkey (Conner Hawke villain)
    Joey N'Bobo-(Richard Dragon villain-killed for fun by Lady Shiva and later GUTTED in Half by Cassandra Cain)
    Grey Lora (Suicide Squad new 52 for)
    Hack (New 52 Suicide Squad member and later foe. Killed by Cap Boomerang)
    Houngan (if you count him as black that is)

    Yes I forgot about Jinx, Black Mass and the black couple from Wonder Woman (90s run). Along the guy from Hill's Outsiders and the one in Duke's mini and See More from Teen Titans.
    And the few in Wildstorm.
    Milestone is excluded due to ownership.

    I will say Dc has Marvel beat on black female villains.

  3. #333
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    Well we already have a “black Justice League”

    Val-Zod
    Batwing
    Nubia
    Aqualad
    Kid Flash
    John Stewart
    Connor Hawke
    Bumblebee
    Northwind
    Firestorm Jason Rusch
    Guardian
    Steel
    Vixen
    Tanya Spears
    Tiffany Fox
    Black Lightning

    This is not a serious post by the way.

  4. #334
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    ...

    For that matter, a Black Panther cartoon set in Wakanda showing up within a year of that movie's debut would have made sense, as well, to keep that hype alive.
    They essentially turned the Avengers cartoon into a Black Panther series. And while it might not be set in Wakanda, I don't know that I'd want one to be. Wakanda's a paradise, like Themyscira, or even New Genesis, so it makes sense that most drama or villains, etc, would happen outside the realm.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    They essentially turned the Avengers cartoon into a Black Panther series. And while it might not be set in Wakanda, I don't know that I'd want one to be. Wakanda's a paradise, like Themyscira, or even New Genesis, so it makes sense that most drama or villains, etc, would happen outside the realm.
    It was kind of funny that a show that was supposed to be about Black Panther seemed to go out of its way spend the bare minimum of time focusing on Wakanda. Outside the Royal Family there weren't even that many named Wakandan's in the main cast.

    Although I don't think there needs to be drama moreso then world-building and exploring that kind of culture and how it grows out into the wider world.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    They essentially turned the Avengers cartoon into a Black Panther series. And while it might not be set in Wakanda, I don't know that I'd want one to be. Wakanda's a paradise, like Themyscira, or even New Genesis, so it makes sense that most drama or villains, etc, would happen outside the realm.
    I think that was planned before the movie came out or was even planned.

    You can ask Redjack as he worked on the show. He pops up around the Black Panther thread every so often.



    Well we already have a “black Justice League”

    Val-Zod
    Batwing
    Nubia
    Aqualad
    Kid Flash
    John Stewart
    Connor Hawke
    Bumblebee
    Northwind
    Firestorm Jason Rusch
    Guardian
    Steel
    Vixen
    Tanya Spears
    Tiffany Fox
    Black Lightning

    This is not a serious post by the way.
    The ones in bold would have been facing the Legion of Doom.

    I was aiming for the Challenge of the Superfriends version.

    I am not sure if there is a black person with Apache Chief and Samurai's powers.

  7. #337
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Gato View Post
    I think they’re lagging because DC doesn’t know how to build up a new character or keep their momentum going. This goes for all new characters introduced, not just the non White ones. A new character will appear, make a splash, get a book that gets cancelled between issues 12-24, then they disappear into limbo. What should be done is a character should appear on a team book and have a solo at the same time, so if the solo fails, then the character still has the team book to fall back on, therefore they don’t lose momentum and actually gain some fans along the way. Then you can try a solo again after more fans were gained...
    I think an issue with that is the current state of the industry. A big reason why the comics publishing arms of Disney and AT&T are kept around is because they can produce characters and storylines that can be utilized for far more lucrative media. It's cheap story boarding. It's estimated that DC's publishing unit generated about $300 million in revenue last year. That accounts for just 0.2% of AT&T's annual revenue. So they aren't really looking to put in the time and resources to build up a character. If it doesn't take off right away, they'll just move onto the next one.

    A new writer on Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc. would much rather create their own characters than use existing ones. That way if their character is used in mainstream media they can make a little extra money getting credit as the creator. No one is going to use Blue Beetle or Vibe if they can just come up with Teen Lantern, Djinn, Roundhouse, Crush, etc. Sadly, odds are that these new characters will just fade away like all the others we've been discussing on this thread.
    Last edited by Robotman; 07-13-2020 at 07:34 PM.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I think that was planned before the movie came out or was even planned.

    You can ask Redjack as he worked on the show. He pops up around the Black Panther thread every so often.
    I think it only came about because of the movie, or at least because the movie was announced.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    They essentially turned the Avengers cartoon into a Black Panther series. And while it might not be set in Wakanda, I don't know that I'd want one to be. Wakanda's a paradise, like Themyscira, or even New Genesis, so it makes sense that most drama or villains, etc, would happen outside the realm.
    The Black Panther season was actually the best one.

  10. #340
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    The Black Panther season was actually the best one.
    I had my problems with it but it was probably the most consistently well-written of the entire series. It was at least the most ambitious.

    It had the absolute worst version of Hawkeye though. Of all time. Killmonger wasn't much better. And Baron Zemo's mask...

  11. #341
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It was kind of funny that a show that was supposed to be about Black Panther seemed to go out of its way spend the bare minimum of time focusing on Wakanda. Outside the Royal Family there weren't even that many named Wakandan's in the main cast.

    Although I don't think there needs to be drama moreso then world-building and exploring that kind of culture and how it grows out into the wider world.
    If you had a desire to see a lot more Wakanda or a series set in Wakanda, that's one thing, but I don't see it as all that different than Wonder Woman, Aquaman or Thor where a lot times their homeland is only shown when the main character leaves it to have adventures in the "wider world." The protagonist represents that culture's values and any conflicts that arise is dramatized through them rather than crafting a storyline about the the many ways cultures interact with each other. (like through some trade federation or something? It's usually not as interesting) Some of these might have gotten more play than others, but aside from an arch-enemy, love-interest of parent, that homeland is rarely developed on cartoons.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    This argument needs to be thrown away, the MCU was built on the backs of Marvel's scrap characters.
    This post as a whole was excellent, but I wanted to isolate this sentence because it deserves the emphasis in the face of that faulty argument.

    A lot of people are ignorant to or forget just how much the Marvel movies in the MCU did for many of its heroes. The likes of Iron Man and Thor were not in fact the household names they are now back before their movies were made and became popular. They were B-List and C-List at best. The same for Captain America in the grand scheme of things. They had popularity, but not the same recognition outside of comics and ubiquitousness within comics that they do now. And that's not even getting into properties like Ant Man and especially The Guardians of the Galaxy. The latter was niche and decidedly unrecognizable to what became so popular thanks to those successful movies.

    Like, it's really hard to believe now, and it's definitely easy to handwave, but most MCU movies were helmed by heroes who lacked presence in much the same ways that many of DC's heroes and POC are attributed to lack. Many have existed for decades and have had multiple adaptations. They were still so-so at best in the comics before the MCU took a chance and changed them into the household icons they are now (and that many, especially their comic book fandoms, assumed they always were).

    So the point and takeaway is that this presumed lack of presence is not an excuse for not pushing and developing these POC characters with loads of potential that DC is sitting on and squandering. The MCU being built on the backs of Marvel Comic's scrap characters is far truer than people realize, and it's a huge part of why they are so successful. DC needs to get on that in earnest. DC should already be on that in earnest.

  13. #343
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It was kind of funny that a show that was supposed to be about Black Panther seemed to go out of its way spend the bare minimum of time focusing on Wakanda. Outside the Royal Family there weren't even that many named Wakandan's in the main cast.

    Although I don't think there needs to be drama moreso then world-building and exploring that kind of culture and how it grows out into the wider world.
    So in other words Disney was completely caught off guard by Black Panther’s success and have been scrambling to capitalize on it ever since. ����

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    So in other words Disney was completely caught off guard by Black Panther’s success and have been scrambling to capitalize on it ever since. ����
    Pretty much. If that movie made Antman or GOTG money-folks would have taken that as a victory.

    But a Billion and 3 Oscars??

    Different story.

    I would say they are doing more with Shuri than her brother.

    The Black Panther season was actually the best one.
    I think that season is slightly based on the pitch Redjack would offer to marvel if they asked him to do the current book. He said based on things now that pitch wouldn't work in comics without a lot of changes.


    So the point and takeaway is that this presumed lack of presence is not an excuse for not pushing and developing these POC characters with loads of potential that DC is sitting on and squandering. The MCU being built on the backs of Marvel Comic's scrap characters is far truer than people realize, and it's a huge part of why they are so successful. DC needs to get on that in earnest. DC should already be on that in earnest.
    The argument was really made mute when Spawn and Blade got movies. Along with Static in Static Shock. Remember those got made at a time when trades were not being made in large numbers.

    Spawn only had 3 volumes before the movie and it was 2005 when we saw the comic book series in full volume trades.
    Blade didn't have one until after the second movie.
    Static- he had one if you could find it. key word FIND IT.

  15. #345
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    If you had a desire to see a lot more Wakanda or a series set in Wakanda, that's one thing, but I don't see it as all that different than Wonder Woman, Aquaman or Thor where a lot times their homeland is only shown when the main character leaves it to have adventures in the "wider world." The protagonist represents that culture's values and any conflicts that arise is dramatized through them rather than crafting a storyline about the the many ways cultures interact with each other. (like through some trade federation or something? It's usually not as interesting) Some of these might have gotten more play than others, but aside from an arch-enemy, love-interest of parent, that homeland is rarely developed on cartoons.
    To be fair, none of those characters you've cited have had solo cartoons that could spend the time developing their homeland.

    There have been tons of stories developing Asgard as a culture and place. Most Aquaman writers are expected to develop Atlantis to some extent.

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