Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Agent Z]

Did Buffy stay in her home, refusing to go out and telling her friends they shouldn't go fight the bad guys?

No and neither did Jeff. Or have you forgotten what happened in the first episode?

Each of Buffy's friends had their own storyline during the season, while her main storyline was worrying about them until the point when she was forced to help them by fighting a few nameless henchmen and then only fight the bad guy because one of her friends went after him?

Yeah, I think you're misremembering a lot aboout what Buffy was like. She was just as much of a reluctant hero as Jefferson was, far more so and she in fact quit being a Slayer three times. Jefferson was fully dedicated to being Black Lightning again as early as the second episode and has been doing way more than just worrying about his daughters. Every time he fought the main villain, he was already going after them first.

This just seems like another instance of superhero fans not liking the heroes having kids and making stuff up.

[skyvolt2000]

Stealth? Is clear that the writers are way more interested and confortable writing for Anissa than BL, he dosn't even drive the plot, is his family does. He just walk around worrying about them until someone ask for his help. I like the show, but Black Lightning isn't the main character no matter what the tittle say.

I was trying to be NICE but I can't even debate the stealth.

You know, I didn't recall people hating it when Buffy's friends were involved in the plot and received development.

It's called having a writing staff that understood it's okay to balance the lead and the supporting cast in plot and development.

You could take BL out and still have a show with his girls and never mention him again. You can't do that with Buffy or her replacements Kendra and Faith. Because her friends were not the chosen one.

Mara Brock-she knows how to balance a show to where one does not overshadow the rest. She did it with Girlfriends and The Game. She's not doing it on Black Lightning.


And the other reason you see these complaints-is because there seems to be this trend.

Black Lighting, Creed, Black Panther, Lucas Sinclair and Chuck Clayton-calls to marginalize them and prop up the black females.

Yes there were calls to make Creed 2 about his wife and screw him. Remove Lucas from Stranger Things and keep his sister. It's not lets spinoff Shuri and Thunder & Lightning-it's get rid of T'Challa and Black Lightning.

Why do you think we keep hearing about Shuri replacing her brother in BP 2? The ONE time folks are screaming for a movie to follow the comic.

We saw Thor have his 3 movies before Jane taking over was discussed.

Yet with the black guys it's get rid of them not expand the franchises.

If they wanted a Thunder & Lightning show-do that instead of using Daddy's show. Expand the franchise. Lightning in college? I would watch that and let her meet a college age Tim or Wallace West.

[Robotman]

Tony Isabella doesn’t like the kids and he seems to be the only one who gets to write BL solos. It sucks but he’s so loud on social media I think DC is hesitant to openly anger him (moreso than they are right now with BatO).

Isabella has done some great work and it’s nice that he’s BL’s biggest cheerleader, but he really needs to back off and let other people tell the character’s story. He obviously wants Jeff to be a youthful exuberant superhero and sees him having kids as making the character look past his prime. Superman and Batman both have kids and they aren’t viewed as grizzled over-the-hill veterans. A person in their 30s today is not the same as a person in their 30s back when Black Lightning was created. If Jeff is portrayed as a man in his 30s who has 2 pre-teen/teenage daughters, it doesn’t mean he’s nearing retirement.

Anissa and Jennifer are the best additions Black Lightning’s world has ever had. Just make them a bit younger so that they’re contemporaries of Damian.

Yet another example of DC squandering POC character potential.

[Ra-El]

No and neither did Jeff. Or have you forgotten what happened in the first episode?



Yeah, I you're misremembering a lot aboout what Buffy was like. She was just as much of a reluctant hero as Jefferson was, far more so and she in fact quit being a Slayer three times. Jefferson was fully dedicated to being Black Lightning again as early as the second episode and has been doing way more than just worrying about his daughters. Every time he fought the main villain, he was already going after them first.

This just seems like another instance of superhero fans not liking the heroes having kids and making stuff up.

Actually I'm watching Buffy for the first time, right now I'm the s01e11, and to be honest I'm only doing it because I really like Angel.

In season 2 Jefferson only goes after Tobias because Jennifer went after him first and she was clearly winning.

I understand why Thunder have more action scenes, her powers are pretty easy to convey with little need for effects, all they have to do is show her tanking hits from the gooms. Jefferson powers are more expensive, so they are less used.
I alson get why Jennifer discovery of her powers are relevant, is the 101 of superhero comics and allow for some good family drama.

While I would definitely like BL to get more screen time, I undestand that the ensemble cast is important. What I really wanted is for the screen time Jefferson get to be better used, to be dedicated to something other than just his worries about his family.

[Agent Z]

It's called having a writing staff that understood it's okay to balance the lead and the supporting cast in plot and development.

Which is what they are doing.

And the other reason you see these complaints-is because there seems to be this trend - calls to marginalize them and prop up the black females.

Okay let’s break this down.

Black Lighting,

I have seen no such calls and even if there were it would never happen. They’ll more likely cancel the show before they do that.

Creed,

As you yourself stated they ignored these calls so who cares? Fans wanted Steve and Bucky to be a couple and the film makers ignored them.

Black Panther

See above.

Lucas Sinclair

Don’t know who this is so I won’t comment.

and Chuck Clayton-

What happened to Chuck had nothing to do with propping up black women. It was the CW’s usual tone deafness when it comes to minorities. Riverdale, and the CW for the most part, is not kind to black people, male or female.

Why do you think we keep hearing about Shuri replacing her brother in BP 2? The ONE time folks are screaming for a movie to follow the comic.

People complained about Thanos not being obsessed with banging Lady Death. They complained about Peter stealing plot beats from Miles Morales’s story and the marginalizaton of Uncle Ben. They complained about the Inhumans being stand-ins for the Mutants. They complained about Heimdhall being white.

We saw Thor have his 3 movies before Jane taking over was discussed.

The first two Thor movies were made before Jane-Thor happened. If Jane was Thor around the time the MCU took off, there absolutely would have been calls for her to wield Mjilnor.

Yet with the black guys it's get rid of them not expand the franchises.

If they wanted a Thunder & Lightning show-do that instead of using Daddy's show. Expand the franchise. Lightning in college? I would watch that and let her meet a college age Tim or Wallace West.

Except the argument that they’re taking over the show is based on them having their own development and story arcs instead like any other supporting cast does.

[Agent Z]

In season 2 Jefferson only goes after Tobias because Jennifer went after him first and she was clearly winning.

Well Jefferson didn't even know where Tobias was for most of the series anyway.

While I would definitely like BL to get more screen time, I undestand that the ensemble cast is important. What I really wanted is for the screen time Jefferson get to be better used, to be dedicated to something other than just his worries about his family.

Which they have. Again, the entire series is about Jefferson's acts towards his community both as a superhero and a teacher. Just because he's a family man doesn't mean that is all he is.

[Will Evans]

Lucas Sinclair is the young black kid in Stranger Things.

I don’t see what’s wrong with adding his sister. All the young people on the show have their siblings involved in the plot, (minus only child Dustin and Steve who have become each other’s surrogate brothers).

Will and Johnathan, Nancy and Mike, Max and Billy.

[Agent Z]

Isabella has done some great work and it’s nice that he’s BL’s biggest cheerleader, but he really needs to back off and let other people tell the character’s story. He obviously wants Jeff to be a youthful exuberant superhero and sees him having kids as making the character look past his prime. Superman and Batman both have kids and they aren’t viewed as grizzled over-the-hill veterans. A person in their 30s today is not the same as a person in their 30s back when Black Lightning was created. If Jeff is portrayed as a man in his 30s who has 2 pre-teen/teenage daughters, it doesn’t mean he’s nearing retirement.

Anissa and Jennifer are the best additions Black Lightning’s world has ever had. Just make them a bit younger so that they’re contemporaries of Damian.

Yet another example of DC squandering POC character potential.

If it means anything, Isabella seems to like the Black Lightning t.v. series judging by this tweet.

I will say that, as always, I would be available to write an ongoing BLACK LIGHTNING series that is faithful to the character's core values as seen in BLACK LIGHTNING: COLD DEAD HANDS and the wondrous BLACK LIGHTNING TV series.

https://twitter.com/thetonyisabella/...87705354661889

[Frontier]

If it means anything, Isabella seems to like the Black Lightning t.v. series judging by this tweet.




https://twitter.com/thetonyisabella/...87705354661889

He also guest starred in the season 3 finale, I believe.

[chamber-music]

Aside from Tobias and Painkiller what rogues gallery does he have in comics?

He fought Holocaust before. I think he should be made a recurring foe for Black Lightning.

[Vordan]

Not many as most were local gang and crooks in the World's Finest and Detective backups.

For BL-you would best look through the already existing villains and go from there.

If you are trying for Luke Cage 2.0-I could toss some Z level villains out.




If he hates those kids-why praise the show like he does?

At times that show felt like a stealth Thunder show at times.

You know what? You might be right, maybe I misspoke. I thought I read an interview in the lead up to Cold Dead Hands where Isabella talked about preferring Jackson to be without kids, but maybe I was wrong about that. I can’t find that interview anymore.

Also Jesus Christ, anyone heard of the first attempt by DC to make a black hero, the Brown Bomber? I had forgotten about this. This tells you all you need to about how racist DC was at the same time Marvel was creating Black Panther, Luke Cage, and others:

When I went to DC in 1976, I was handed two scripts of something called the Black Bomber. These were scripts produced by Gerry Conway and Bob Kanigher — terrific writers, good guys. But the fact was these scripts were the most offensive scripts I'd ever read in my life.

The Black Bomber was a white racist who took part in camouflage experiments during the Vietnam war to help him blend into the jungle better.

I hate where this is going.

Save your hate, there's more to come.

So nothing happened when he was Vietnam. But when he was discharged home at various times, he would turn into a black superhero. The white racist didn't know that he turned into a black superhero. Likewise, the black superhero didn't know he was really a white racist.

[In] the worst of these two scripts, his white racist identity saves people who [he] can't see clearly and then is horrified when he learns he risked his life to save a black person, one being a child in a baby carriage. And when he finds out it's a black kid, he literally says, "You mean I risked my life for a jungle bunny?"

Wow.

The cherry on this s**t sundae was that his uniform was essentially a basketball uniform. So I told DC "no," I could not punch up these scripts and take over the book with the third issue because they were the most offensive things possible and if you put them out, people would come to their offices with pitchforks and torches.

They asked, "how could you possibly know this?" and I said, "Because I'll be leading them."

How long did your initial conversations about Black Bomber go on for with DC?

We argued about this for two weeks until I finally boiled it down to one question: "You really want DC's first headline black superhero to be a white racist?" And at that point, they agreed it was a bad idea. They killed the project and gave me basically two, three weeks to create a new black hero.

DC was so, so ****ing lucky they got Isabella when they did. Christ they were going to do this crap in freaking 1976? This reads like something out of the Golden Age racism. Embarrassing. This basically outlines why DC has lagged so far behind Marvel: the morons in charge were completely clueless and racist.

[Agent Z]

You know what? You might be right, maybe I misspoke. I thought I read an interview in the lead up to Cold Dead Hands where Isabella talked about preferring Jackson to be without kids, but maybe I was wrong about that. I can’t find that interview anymore.

Also Jesus Christ, anyone heard of the first attempt by DC to make a black hero, the Brown Bomber? I had forgotten about this. This tells you all you need to about how racist DC was at the same time Marvel was creating Black Panther, Luke Cage, and others:


DC was so, so ****ing lucky they got Isabella when they did. Christ they were going to do this crap in freaking 1976? This reads like something out of the Golden Age racism. Embarrassing. This basically outlines why DC has lagged so far behind Marvel: the morons in charge were completely clueless and racist.

It's because it was 1976 that they thought it was a good idea. This was the same decade in which Marvel retconned Sam Wilson from a social worker to a pimp who was brainwashed into thinking he was a hero by the Red Skull. This type of racism was not uncommon in the comic industry.

[skyvolt2000]

Lucas Sinclair is the young black kid in Stranger Things.

I don’t see what’s wrong with adding his sister. All the young people on the show have their siblings involved in the plot, (minus only child Dustin and Steve who have become each other’s surrogate brothers).

Will and Johnathan, Nancy and Mike, Max and Billy.

Ok with the way they were going about her on Twitter and other websites-I thought she did something to warrant all that in season 2.
After I got the dvd for season 2 and watched-all she did in every scene was INSULT her brother. I think she had like 8 minutes of screen time. I thought she did something for all that praise.

Then we head to season 3 and she gets a poster and Funko Pop toy-then I see those SAME folks who screamed for her, get mad about how she (and black women) was done on the show. With complaints of why does she and Lucas get along like the other brother and sister combo. They PRAISED her insulting her brother in season 2 and it looks like they got what they asked for.

That is what I don't like about that group. It's not let expand but lets remove and take over.

I don't need Wonder Woman removed to build up Nubia. Why can't we have both? Same with Green Lantern and Flash.
Expand those empires.


Anyway-here is my pitch for a black JLA.

http://fav.me/de1wdwk

And YES Bronze Tiger does have a nephew named after him.

I finished the more diverse Vixen pitch. I have to redo some of the pages.
I have to replace a villain whose name I forgot.

[skyvolt2000]

You know what? You might be right, maybe I misspoke. I thought I read an interview in the lead up to Cold Dead Hands where Isabella talked about preferring Jackson to be without kids, but maybe I was wrong about that. I can’t find that interview anymore.

Also Jesus Christ, anyone heard of the first attempt by DC to make a black hero, the Brown Bomber? I had forgotten about this. This tells you all you need to about how racist DC was at the same time Marvel was creating Black Panther, Luke Cage, and others:


DC was so, so ****ing lucky they got Isabella when they did. Christ they were going to do this crap in freaking 1976? This reads like something out of the Golden Age racism. Embarrassing. This basically outlines why DC has lagged so far behind Marvel: the morons in charge were completely clueless and racist.

Look up the history of Tyroc in Legion. There is a reason Grell did his costume like that.

The push back to many characters of color was strong back then.

I have to find the book but Chuck Dixon had issues with his book Strike from Eclipse Comics. Black lead and stores took issue with it.
How bad did it get Chuck killed him off in a company crossover-he die and you never saw his body or a funeral for him. He died saving everybody and was an after thought.

[Robotman]

I think DC needs more POC characters that are larger than life. Black Lightning is cool but he'll always be seen as a "street level" hero in the same territory as Green Arrow, Katana, etc. They need a character like Icon who can stand shoulder to shoulder with Superman and Woman Woman. Yeah, John Stewart hangs out with the super strong meta humans but all the GLs will always be jockying for position with one another and fans will always argue over who the true Green Lantern is or which one should be on the Justice League.

Tom Taylor just posted something about his next project that makes me very excited!




Amazing Man has a ton of potential! The fact that Taylor seems to be going with Roy Thomas' idea of starting him out in the 1940s along side the All Star Squadron. That Amazing Man also marched with MLK during the Civil Rights movement. Amazing Man could be huge and very culturally significant if done right.