Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Jabare]

DC did better with superheroines for a long time, nowadays people might argue marvel but it's debatable.

Marvel has historically been better at portraying Black heroes, specifically men but in the last 10 years or so they've done a better job with women too

Some might argue that DC has more Asian representation than Marvel. I'm not sure if that's the case, but given Marvel's upcoming projects it's not by much

Thanks to the MCU and other multimedia ventures Marvel's been outpacing DC on several fronts recently.

[Aahz]

Define long running series is that 24 or 36 or 50 issues?

I to me "long running" means that the series lastet for 3+ year (so at least 36 issues), since we have seen that they are willing to keep a new series going for at 1.5-2 years even if the sales are low.
And I really mean one series (or at least series that got almost immediately relaunched after the last ended), not a case like Black Lightning who get's there if you add up all series he had over a span of roughly 40 years.

And "recent" I would define as "post bronze age", so basically since COIE.

To answer your question-

Marvel's original characters that lasted say 24 issues or have at least 30 solo issues (not linked to a franchise or legacy)
Darkhawk
Sleepwalker
Moon Girl
Luke Cage
Moon Knight
Punisher
New Warriors
Hawkeye
Shang Chi
Ironfist
Black Panther
Shuri (gray area)
Runaways
Black Widow
Dr Strange
Squirrel Girl
Rocket Raccoon (gray area)

DC
Hitman
Spectre
Black Lightning (combined books)
Cyborg (combined books)
Hitman
Demon
Warlord

There are more but they don't have the 30 solo issues. Most stopped at 18 or lower.

So based on this Hitman would really be the last one who meets my criteria for DC. Cyborg misses it by one issue, but he was also not really a "new" and had connections to established franchises (Titans, Justice League) and a lot of appearances in other media.

For Marvel it would be Moon Girl (kind of an unsusual case since the sales came apparently mostly from outside the direct market) and before that Runaways (and that's from the early 2000's, and it is a team and not a solo character) or if we just look at solo characters Darkhawk (and is again a character from the early 90s).

[John Venus]

DC is top heavy and in recent years, only Batman has really thrived while everyone else is scrapping by. This is not a slight against Batman or his fans but it has to do with DC mostly pushing Batman as a solo hero and not really building up the rest of the stable of characters. Marvel has made several ventures bringing lesser known characters to the big screen and it incentivizes the comics to push their lesser known heroes since they know any one of them could be the next billion dollar franchise.

DC needs better leadership and people willing to invest in their non-Bat characters and put them on the map. DC has characters that are just as good if not better than Marvel's.

[CosmiComic]

It’s about racial minorities because at the end of the day, most of DC’s high profile LGBT characters are still White. Women shouldn’t even count as minorities either since they’re half the population and again, DC’s high profile women are all White with the exception of Jessica in recent years.

Women are still marginalized, though, and in the end that's what representation is trying to correct. Otherwise, female characers would be equal in number to male ones

[abetterday]

DC for some reason actively disregards Cyborg in certain instances. Cyborg still hasn't received an Omnibus but John Stewart has. And John Stewart's Omnibus is a collection of incomplete stories for 40 bucks. I like John Stewart but I'm not going to pay 40 bucks for incomplete stories. Cyborg has enough appearances for a couple of omnibuses if you take in consideration his appearances in The New Teen titans, new Teen titans Go! comic book, The New Titans by Eric Wallace. His 6 issue mini-series before his main ongoings. His two issues in Teen Titans Spotlight. The first issues of New 52 Justice League is probably essential to understanding the character post new 52 era. He had a significant appearance in Forever Evil Justice League arc as well as the Darkseid War. Justice League Odyssey. He's very instrumental in the DCeased mini-series but for some odd reason was only a very minor player in the sequel. All of these appearances would make a good ominibus. And with appearances by the Justice league and the New Teen Titans I would think it would sell pretty well. But DC choose not to go that route but quite the opposite. They even chose to not put the last 3 part story of the first New Teen Titans comic run, featuring Cyborg, in trade paperback. And also they also skipped Titans Hunt the story line which caused the most damage to Cyborg. DC replaced John Stewart with Cyborg. Something that I really don't mind because I understand the feeling of some fans that he's over exposed and other complaints but what bothers me is that he's kind like a single white female meme for Cyborg. This is kind of disrespecting John Stewart imo because he came before Cyborg and should have been treated better. But in his solo ongoing title written by John Semper Jr. Cyborg was based the city of Detroit. In Justice League Endless Winter and I believe the main Justice League title John Stewart was based in the city of Detroit. And in the current Green Lantern ongoing John Stewart is going on an adventure in deep space that reminds me of Justice League Odyssey. Also his appearance in Scott Snyder's Justice League ultimately was a huge disappointment. Hopefully his current appearance headlining Green lantern can cleanse him of his most recent appearances in the Justice League which had been, in my opinion, kind of terrible. I have faith because the first issues were pretty good.

[Killerbee911]

Women are still marginalized, though, and in the end that's what representation is trying to correct. Otherwise, female characers would be equal in number to male ones

Until you realize that there is a reason racial minorities get emphasized in this topic like this one. Lets pretend DC wanted Justice League to be more diverse. Wonder Woman is made Bisexual, Then someone comes up brilliant Idea to make Batman blind but give him a device to see with echolocation so now Batman is handicap, You replace Barry Allen with Wally West so now Flash is a red head. Mera replaces Aquaman so now you have two read heads and another woman. Nothing against any other minority except that it is possible to be "more diverse" and look basically the same as before. Being diverse and still looking exactly the same would be an issue.

So yeah racial diversity tends to get the higher priority because it is one that gets ignored more and it is one where they can't go Alan Scott or Diana was gay along, Batman is Scottish or Captain America is Irish which is cool but leaves things the same. AND if women need to push then push woman of color, If LGBTQ needs to be push then push a LGBTQ POC. There is no reason why you couldn't accomplish two things at once it is not like push racial minorities prevent other types of minorities from being pushed.

[iron chimp]

Women are still marginalized, though, and in the end that's what representation is trying to correct. Otherwise, female characers would be equal in number to male ones

I would say a large portion of women are marginalised by the genre itself simply because a lot of women think its rubbish. Its like saying why dont more men read "chicklit" or watch romcoms. There is clear demographics and consumer / gender trends in certain genres.

When dc had sandman and vertigo i think they had more female readers but once they dumped that there wasnt much left for a lot of female consumers

[Rise]

The idea that women only care and read about female characters is pretty ignorant.

When Final Fantasy XV was announced to have all male cast, internet warriors got triggered pretty hard as usual and started yelling about misogyny just for the game to end up having a huge numbers of female players bigger than any of the previous games.

[iron chimp]

(10 chars)

[BlueRuggo]

It’s about racial minorities because at the end of the day, most of DC’s high profile LGBT characters are still White.

Of course there are going to be fewer high profile superheroes who belong to racial minorities than there are high profile superheroes who are white. That is why they are called "minorities."

That'd be like me as a gay white male saying that most of DC or Marvel's high profile black characters are straight and then presenting it as a problem when that is a normal expectation. Of course they are going to be mostly straight. "Most" people, black or not, are straight. I don't expect a majority of superheroes to be LGBT just because I'm gay. What is important to me is having proportionate representation, not over-representation.

Way back when huge major publishers rolled out white superheroes as the massive majority, white people WERE the massive majority. The fact is: the USA fifty years ago was way whiter than it is now, demographically. That readership has changed demographically in the last couple decades, just as the entire country's demographic profile has changed, and I believe that Marvel and DC adapted well and are responsive to people's evolving expectations. I feel that both publishers make conscious efforts to roll out characters who are minorities/marginalized. I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing against that.

ADDENDUM:

So recently I got into a debate on social media about DC and Marvel's treatment of their minority characters. Somewhere along the way some fans started to claim that DC did diversity right while Marvel' s way felt more like an agenda or fulfilling a quota so to speak. Others felt Marvel's approach was correct and more successful. That got me curious to see which claim had more merit. To my surprise the second claim can actually be backed up by factual sales instead of ones opinion.

This is illogical though. Unless you have evidence that those sales differences are a result of (or even related to) either publisher's "treatment of their minority characters" rather than those solo minority titles just following the overall sales trends of their respective publisher's current titles in general, whether due to unpopular writing or artwork or any other factor, then this IS just your opinion.

[Killerbee911]

What is important to me is having proportionate representation, not over-representation

There is nothing such as over-representation in something like this for example 18% of the NBA is white, 28% of NFL is white. There is no reason for Superheroes to follow population numbers, If it did follow the population numbers Asians would have a higher percentage than whites and clearly that is not the case. The only reason to bring exact population numbers is as an attempt to say use less minorities when there is NOTHING stop them from using more than want to do so. Comics have never based it usage of characters on reflecting the world. And since the frequent use of group over others has never hurt the genre, I don't see why frequent use of other groups now over that one group would hurt the genre either.

If White people were majority-minority in comics, I don't see what harm will come, and in around the year 2045 nonhispanic White people will be the minority in the US at around 49% population-based on the projections.Either way there is no reason not to have way more racial minority characters.

[Aahz]

It’s about racial minorities because at the end of the day, most of DC’s high profile LGBT characters are still White.

But they are also both (Harley Quinn and Batwoman) Jewish...

If White people were majority-minority in comics, I don't see what harm will come, and in around the year 2045 nonhispanic White people will be the minority in the US at around 49% population-based on the projections.Either way there is no reason not to have way more racial minority characters.

Problem is that even than they would still be the largest ethnic group, and most of the other minorities would very likely still not be large enough to keep a book going on their own.

And some minorities might still be more likely to pick up a book with a white character than with a character of a different minority (or in some cases even with character from another ethnic group of the same "race") ...

[Jackalope89]

But they are also both (Harley Quinn and Batwoman) Jewish...

For Batwoman, that is a good part of her character. For Harley; those that have followed for awhile know she is, but those that only know her from a general view, may not.

Anyway, an up and front minority character, Damian Wayne, had a pretty bad showing during Teen Titans Rebirth (the second one). The writer established his Middle Eastern origins (fine), and then summarily had him strap a bomb to his chest while he ambushed Red Hood. Not exactly a flattering depiction.

[Killerbee911]

Problem is that even than they would still be the largest ethnic group, and most of the other minorities would very likely still not be large enough to keep a book going on their own.

And some minorities might still be more likely to pick up a book with a white character than with a character of a different minority (or in some cases even with character from another ethnic group of the same "race") ...

Uhmm people pick up books for the characters and concept primarily, Race is a secondary thing adds to character story but does not make a break a character. I think you missed my point if DC had 200 characters, I was saying there would be zero harm if 102 of them PoC, And 98 of them where white.

It was about showing how many POC are actually around and could be around stop acting like white people being the majority means Justice League with 10 people with 8 of them white would be okay because White people are the "majority". I was showing the logic that a majority does mean in every situation "the minority" will be outnumber. That was the point there will be a future that if the US has 328 million people, It will have a coin flip you will run into a POC or white person.

Anyways There is no other point to get other than write good stories and have more minorities in them. Write good stories highlight minorities so they can be used in the biggest stories and not same old guard.

[Aahz]

Uhmm people pick up books for the characters and concept primarily, Race is a secondary thing adds to character story but does not make a break a character. I think you missed my point if DC had 200 characters, I was saying there would be zero harm if 102 of them PoC, And 98 of them where white.

But only about dozend or so character of these 200 characters actually sell book, so in the end of the day it doesn't really matter if 10% or 90% of the other characters are minorities, most of the books that they will be put out and that keep going on the long run will still feature the few characters that sell.

It was about showing how many POC are actually around and could be around stop acting like white people being the majority means Justice League with 10 people with 8 of them white would be okay because White people are the "majority". I was showing the logic that a majority does mean in every situation "the minority" will be outnumber. That was the point there will be a future that if the US has 328 million people, It will have a coin flip you will run into a POC or white person.

In the end it doesn't matter who the majority is, it matters what characters the majority of the readers in going to buy the books of. If the classic Justice League lineup with the big six (with slight variations) what sell best, that's probably what the Justice League will look like most of the time.
If there was a team with diverse characters that would have decent sales numbers, that would very likely also stay in print.

That's essentially the same with NBA and NFL, if no one was watching it the teams would go bankrupt, completely independent of what race the players have or how good they are.