Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[iron chimp]

I think the bigger problem is that not enough people of any gender / sexuality / race etc actually care about monthly comics enough to support a range of books. Thats sad situation but sales have been flat for 20 years now and i think the worrying thing is that no one can pinpoint one reason why. You could write probably 10 valid reasons and multiple companies have identified their reasons and tried to address them but everything has failed

[Killerbee911]

But only about dozend or so character of these 200 characters actually sell book, so in the end of the day it doesn't really matter if 10% or 90% of the other characters are minorities, most of the books that they will be put out and that keep going on the long run will still feature the few characters that sell.

Ah yes the dozen of these characters only sell a book argument

Invincible Has Sold Over 100,000 Graphic Novels in 2021 Already


Invincible #1 Hits $2500 After Amazon Prime Video Series Debut

Streaming TV, Films Drive Surge in Graphic Novel Sales

Jupiter's Legacy #1 Jumps to $50 Raw, $224 CGC 9.8 on eBay

I am not going even bother going back on forth on this , I already know the rabbit hole you are going try to go down. "These characters just don't sell" "New characters don't work" "Movies and TV readers don't buy comic books".

It is weird it is almost if any time there isn't a company push certain characters over others that they can sell pretty well, It is weird every time Marvel has put out one of those characters that does not work on big screen it sells, It is weird once it is not Marvel and DC that movie fans and tv fans pick up comics after watching stuff. Yeah sure only dozen characters work but yet some how manga keep pushing out a new successful characters and brands.

Yeah sure whatever Justice League works because only those characters work and nothing else could ever work. Comic fans really buy their bs.

[Gitagon]

DC is mostly Batman's world (Detective Comics) so once they get done with his books (he has over 20 in the August Solicitations + associated characters make it over 30 books) there isn't space for other characters let alone minorities. Superman has like 5 to 10 associated books coming this August, Wonder Woman has 4 from what I saw, Aquaman had 1 + a special (despite his billion dollar movie), there's several Suicide Squad books and the JL book. The rest of the characters like Flash and GL have 1 book, maybe 2 for GL but I only saw one.

There was a Milestone Hardware book which is a surprise, an Amethyst book but it has Damian in it (Batman) and some few obscure titles but that's about it for this August.

So at that point, they don't really have space for minority characters or female lesser known female characters when 30+ Books is Batman and Batman associated characters.

Like they could have easily dropped one of the Bat books and done a Cyborg book but it is what it is.

[Gitagon]

Ah yes the dozen of these characters only sell a book argument

Invincible Has Sold Over 100,000 Graphic Novels in 2021 Already


Invincible #1 Hits $2500 After Amazon Prime Video Series Debut

Streaming TV, Films Drive Surge in Graphic Novel Sales

Jupiter's Legacy #1 Jumps to $50 Raw, $224 CGC 9.8 on eBay

I am not going even bother going back on forth on this , I already know the rabbit hole you are going try to go down. "These characters just don't sell" "New characters don't work" "Movies and TV readers don't buy comic books".

It is weird it is almost if any time there isn't a company push certain characters over others that they can sell pretty well, It is weird every time Marvel has put out one of those characters that does not work on big screen it sells, It is weird once it is not Marvel and DC that movie fans and tv fans pick up comics after watching stuff. Yeah sure only dozen characters work but yet some how manga keep pushing out a new successful characters and brands.

Yeah sure whatever Justice League works because only those characters work and nothing else could ever work. Comic fans really buy their bs.

Yep, this is always their excuse to justify the nonsense DC pulls with Batman.

[iron chimp]

Ah yes the dozen of these characters only sell a book argument

Invincible Has Sold Over 100,000 Graphic Novels in 2021 Already


Invincible #1 Hits $2500 After Amazon Prime Video Series Debut

Streaming TV, Films Drive Surge in Graphic Novel Sales

Jupiter's Legacy #1 Jumps to $50 Raw, $224 CGC 9.8 on eBay

I am not going even bother going back on forth on this , I already know the rabbit hole you are going try to go down. "These characters just don't sell" "New characters don't work" "Movies and TV readers don't buy comic books".

It is weird it is almost if any time there isn't a company push certain characters over others that they can sell pretty well, It is weird every time Marvel has put out one of those characters that does not work on big screen it sells, It is weird once it is not Marvel and DC that movie fans and tv fans pick up comics after watching stuff. Yeah sure only dozen characters work but yet some how manga keep pushing out a new successful characters and brands.

Yeah sure whatever Justice League works because only those characters work and nothing else could ever work. Comic fans really buy their bs.

I think both points are right - new characters do work otherwise there would be no Image or Independent scene outside of licensed comics.

BUT DC cant get the writers who have the big independent hits because they can make more money doing it themselves.

Its a situation where the best crime writer in comcis at the minute, Brubaker, doesnt need the biggest crime comics publisher in DC.

So if you cant get the people who can do this, like Kirkman, Brubaker etc then... you are kind of screwed

[Rise]

I still remember when DC announced the metal line that had new characters few years ago (and even had famous artists on them) and this very broad that loves to cry about "minority rights!!" was completely aganist the idea. DC even tried to keep Super-Man afloat as hard as they can despite the terrible sales, but there was just no support for it.

They have been attempts, many attempts, but some dc fans are more busy whinning about Batman than supporting the characters they keep crying about.

[Aahz]

Ah yes the dozen of these characters only sell a book argument

Invincible Has Sold Over 100,000 Graphic Novels in 2021 Already


Invincible #1 Hits $2500 After Amazon Prime Video Series Debut

Streaming TV, Films Drive Surge in Graphic Novel Sales

Jupiter's Legacy #1 Jumps to $50 Raw, $224 CGC 9.8 on eBay

I am not going even bother going back on forth on this , I already know the rabbit hole you are going try to go down. "These characters just don't sell" "New characters don't work" "Movies and TV readers don't buy comic books".

That works if you have TV show that is closely based on a comic.

But it has afaik not really worked for anything Marvel or DC have done. And the comic publishing part of DC and Marvel have not much control over what gets adopted.

Maybe DC and Marvel change their Business model at some point, so that they can new characters more easily of the ground, but with how it worked for last decades, chances for new characters and IPs are pretty abysmal.

EDIT: I just looked up at comic chron what invincible sold back than in floppies. From a quick look typically somewhere in the 10k range, I doubt that book would have run that long at DC or Marvel.

[Killerbee911]

I think both points are right - new characters do work otherwise there would be no Image or Independent scene outside of licensed comics.

BUT DC cant get the writers who have the big independent hits because they can make more money doing it themselves.

Its a situation where the best crime writer in comcis at the minute, Brubaker, doesnt need the biggest crime comics publisher in DC.

So if you cant get the people who can do this, like Kirkman, Brubaker etc then... you are kind of screwed

I don't full agree with that DC and Marvel are committed to floppies/singles but long form stories and trades is what will attract new readers/casual fans. I don't blame Marvel and DC for sticking what works(probably makes them more money) and I understand that transition to making most of your money off trades and al carte digital service would be brutal short term move

But it is clear they aren't really interested in make things works because you need to develop an audience which takes sometimes failure but why do that when you can stick Batman on a book and make money with that book until the effect wear out, None of DC New Age of Heroes stuck around then in a thread like this some person going to talk about how they put top artist on those books and go look it didn't work, Then ignore that Aquaman is going to get another chance, Hawkman is going get another chance, Teen Titans gets another chance. Supergirl is going to get another chance, etc

The Recipe for success
-Launch a bunch new characters at same time unnecessarily as event splitting the audience because comic fans who buy new characters is slight different audience of comic fans so instead of the fan who will buy one new book that is not their pull list, There are now 3 or 4 books that they won't buy

-yeah sure put Toney Daniel, Jim Lee, Andy Kubert pull them off in 2 or 3 issues which will feel like a bait and switch. Or good jumping off point for unsure buyer

-Then as people are getting a feel for the characters cancel the book and never use the characters in the universe again.

They had no plan for these books if they "failed" not one of them got relaunch or rework. That certainly sounds like a successful way to bring along new character. We all know when you cancel a book it means that book would never work, I mean look at X-men right. Anyways I will stop here because I am leading the topic off but fans do love claim that things don't work and it is not that simple.

[9th.]

I think both points are right - new characters do work otherwise there would be no Image or Independent scene outside of licensed comics.

BUT DC cant get the writers who have the big independent hits because they can make more money doing it themselves.

Its a situation where the best crime writer in comcis at the minute, Brubaker, doesnt need the biggest crime comics publisher in DC.

So if you cant get the people who can do this, like Kirkman, Brubaker etc then... you are kind of screwed

I think new characters work just not with DC and Marvel. They've pretty much conditioned fans to only support certain franchises. Thats why anything new and mainstream that pops off is apart a huge franchise like Miles for example.

[9th.]

I still remember when DC announced the metal line that had new characters few years ago (and even had famous artists on them) and this very broad that loves to cry about "minority rights!!" was completely aganist the idea. DC even tried to keep Super-Man afloat as hard as they can despite the terrible sales, but there was just no support for it.

They have been attempts, many attempts, but some dc fans are more busy whinning about Batman than supporting the characters they keep crying about.

There were some really interesting books in the New Age of Heroes but that whole line just got completely shat on from the jump.

[Agent Z]

What is important to me is having proportionate representation, not over-representation.

If we're talking about over-representation, then aliens, cyborgs, robots and mutants are a hell lot more populous in comics than they are in real life.

[iron chimp]

I think new characters work just not with DC and Marvel. They've pretty much conditioned fans to only support certain franchises. Thats why anything new and mainstream that pops off is apart a huge franchise like Miles for example.

Yes conditioning is another factor. You "need" to read this event. What happens in book xyz this month changes everything etc etc. And it works because they sell big and generate lots of forum traffic.

But then mini series, other characters books etc look like they dont matter because DC can make you forget its about enjoying a good story at the end of the day not watching pieces being moved around the chessboard.

And you end up shrinking yr line up simply by telling yr readers this book "matters" and this one by implication doesnt

[Mai Zen]

I still remember when DC announced the metal line that had new characters few years ago (and even had famous artists on them) and this very broad that loves to cry about "minority rights!!" was completely aganist the idea. DC even tried to keep Super-Man afloat as hard as they can despite the terrible sales, but there was just no support for it.

They have been attempts, many attempts, but some dc fans are more busy whinning about Batman than supporting the characters they keep crying about.

Yeah people who has access and spare money could support the other heroes by buying their comic. IIRC the metal event is supposed about evil dark counterpart of the Leaguers and not Batman variants?

[El_Gato]

I still remember when DC announced the metal line that had new characters few years ago (and even had famous artists on them) and this very broad that loves to cry about "minority rights!!" was completely aganist the idea. DC even tried to keep Super-Man afloat as hard as they can despite the terrible sales, but there was just no support for it.

They have been attempts, many attempts, but some dc fans are more busy whinning about Batman than supporting the characters they keep crying about.

Maybe it’s because fans were upset that they’d rather continue introducing new characters instead of doing something of merit with the ones that already exist. Hard to get hyped for new minority characters when you see how the prior ones have been treated

[hairys]

I think new characters work just not with DC and Marvel. They've pretty much conditioned fans to only support certain franchises. Thats why anything new and mainstream that pops off is apart a huge franchise like Miles for example.

Sure, with creator-owned publishers like Image, fans are following the creators. With the Big Two (work-for-hire) , fans are following characters. No surprises there; it's almost definitional.