Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Alpha]

Well hair length would still make a difference, and most of them seem to transition between bald and a small fade and usually clean shaven. But that's not the only issue, it's that all these men have the same basic facial structure without distinctive features, and are built the same way.

Mister Terrific has a slimmer face with a rectangular facial structure and seems to be on the leaner side.

[skyvolt2000]

@Alpha so you're saying DC artists draw most black men the same?

Some of them do and depending on who we are talking about-it's the artist doing it or the editor ordering it to be done.

Ask the Star Trek (DC) artist what they went through with Paramount and DC.
Ask Tom Richmond on how many times he had to redo Peg Bundy's face in the Married With Children's comic.
Over at Marvel-notice Miles Morales no longer has his waves in his hair. Same hairstyle and colorist but new artist-who tried to put some in.

Take Doomed the book about Baby Doomsday by Lobdell.

I can't tell you if Baby Doomsday was Arab or black or Latino. He almost passed off as Dr Fate's nephew.
Yet in Teen Titans under Lobdell. He looked like the love child between Namor, Mr Turvok, The elves from Lords of the Rings and Bruce Banner.

. I think it's a mix of subconscious bias regarding how black people "should wear their hair" and a lack of awareness of diverse hair types and styles.

Not surprising that Static, one of the very few characters to be created by an all-black team, is the only one to buck this trend.

Sometimes that is done for a reason.

Like toys-is Mattel willing to do 4 versions of say Static's hair? Or would they do what they did with the Steven Doll from Barbie? Gave him the Trey Songz doll head? To be cheap?
The Funko Pop Static might sell more if they used the cartoon version instead of Jim Lee's version that has NOT been seen in 9 years as New 52 Static Shock trade is LONG out of print.

[BlueRuggo]

Well hair length would still make a difference, and most of them seem to transition between bald and a small fade and usually clean shaven. But that's not the only issue, it's that all these men have the same basic facial structure without distinctive features, and are built the same way.

Mister Terrific has a slimmer face with a rectangular facial structure and seems to be on the leaner side.

Hair length makes a difference, yes, but the way which in these characters are designed is just a sign of the times. Clean shaven and low/high fade haircuts are still overwhelmingly popular looks for black men, and the comics reflect that. As cool as it appeared on screen in Black Panther, most black men are not running around with Erik Killmonger's well-manicured mini-dreads. The illustrators aren't drawing black men's hair to conform to what they think should be popular. They draw them to reflect what IS popular. So what do you want them to do?

As for the facial structure and physique thing, I feel that's true for all male characters in general. You got either:

(1) Buff guys like Superman, Batman, Aquaman
(2) Trim guys like Wally, Kyle, Dick
(3) Skinny guys like Tim, Ryan, Bart

There are slight variations within each but they all pretty much fit the same mold.

[Alpha]

I already gave you examples of how some characters have in fact been able to distinguish themselves throughout the various artists.

Mister Terrific's slimmer face and rectangular facial structure

Kaldur'ahm has a right angular nose and blonde hair

Jace Fox has a pronounced forehead that gives him a permanent Kubrick Gaze


Some heroes could have a big rounder nose, or a small rounder nose, or a straighter long nose. They could have bigger ears, thicker eyebrows, bigger eyes or smaller eyes. Even though I think John Henry Irons, Jefferson Pierce and John Stewart all look too similar, at least John Henry used to have an earring. It wasn't much, but it was something. There are so many ways to make these characters stand out from each other beyond their costumes. Some of them could have a long and fat jaw, while the other could have a shorter and straighter jawline. Higher cheekbones or lower cheekbones. Haircuts is just the more obvious solution.

[BlueRuggo]

I think that is a problem specific to those three characters, not black characters in general.

DC's newer generation of male black heroes, like in the last fifteen years or so, look pretty distinct in their physique and facial structure. I can't imagine anyone confusing Wallace, Jackson, and Duke, for example.

Meanwhile, John Henry, Jefferson Pierce, John Stewart are very similar and probably not a lot of imagination was used in their design, unfortunately. The problem is that they are decades-old characters and are very established from the same "big, burly black guy" archetype, which makes it difficult to distinguish them in meaningful ways. Tweaking one of their noses in a weird way or giving them different eyebrow densities wouldn't do any harm... but I don't think it would make much of a positive difference in the end.

[Alpha]

John Stewart and Jefferson Pierce's design changed a lot from what they looked like when they were created. So they could change to something more distinctive. The Teen Titans show kind of allowed Cyborg to avoid this partially by making him more round, but the comics didn't really adhere to this so he just stays in the same place as the rest of them.

[BlueRuggo]

Stewart and Pierce looked almost exactly the same as each other, except Pierce's "disco fro" was a wig.

[Alpha]

Stewart and Pierce looked almost exactly the same as each other, except Pierce's "disco fro" was a wig.

Yes, so why change their appearance but keep them so similar? The only difference was their costume and one being bald, while the other had a small fade.

[abetterday]

I don't think DC care enough to put any effort into the designs of Black Superheroes especially since they do not sell well. It's my hope that DC and maybe Marvel also stop publishing Black Superheroes. I also wish that white creators would give up their copyrights and profits from Black Superheroes like Black Lightning, Cyborg, Black Panther etc.. to a Black creator who would take the care that it's needed to craft a great story in aesthetic as well as soul, which is what I think that's missing from comics.

But that's a great pipe dream. In the first run of the New Teen Titans I thought that George Perez did a great job with Cyborg. Aesthetically you can see the texture in his hair and in the first year or so he was dark skinned instead of the normal medium skin tone that they give most Black characters. I also thought that Will Conrad did a great job in the recent Cyborg Rebirth series.

[John Venus]

Heh, I remember this image and it's corresponding Marvel equivalent being posted in an online group of mostly poc comic fans and the DC one was derided for having too many derivatives (black version of white heroes) while the Marvel side had a 'bulletproof black man' and 'king of an uncolonized African country'.

There is a truth to those criticisms but at the same time, the image is missing characters like Ben Turner, Dr Mist and Mal Duncan, plus I think Black Lightning should have a more prominent spot on it. It's also a matter of DC not pushing their originals as they do their spin off heroes.

Am I the only one that feels like Black male superheroes in DC comics have been designed to look like one another since the 90s?

John Henry Irons, John Stewart, Jefferson Pierce, Victor Stone, any actor that plays one of them could play all these different characters without changing much about how he looks, at least as far as how they are designed in comics. They all have the same facial structure, the same hairstyle.

I remember reading McDuffie/Benes JLA and noting how similarly John Stewart, Icon and Steel were draw but as other posters have pointed out it mostly comes down to art style.

I’d like to see something like this :


John H Steel - model after Malcolm-Jamal Warner
Long Locs, 6’1-6’3


John GL model after Shamier Anderson
6’0/6’1 Facial hair/ light beard & hair cut/low-mid fade
(future end look) or 6’0/6’1 Facial hair or light beard (future state look)


Jeff - model after Cress Williams & Terrence C. Carson/Kyle Barker 6’5, full beard, short locs

Vic - model after Joivan Wade & Stephan James ( in 21 bridges) , 6’6-6’9 light goatee

Michael - 6’2-6’3 model Isaiah Mustafa & Nate Parker, low-mid fade. Mustache or little no facial hair

Duke- 5’7-5’8, model after John Boyega in attack the block , mid-long locs , (Futures End look)

Wallace - High high top fade with part in design, model after Franz Drameh. 5’9-5’10

Luke - model after Trevor Jackson 6’1-6’3, Full beard, Braids on top fade on the side

Jace - model after Trai Byers 5’10-5’11 light facial hair/mustache & low hair cut

Maybe it's because of how he was drawn in his solo series but I think Steel should be the tallest out of all the characters listed. Like 6'5-6'7.

I think Black Lightning should be modeled after an Olympic runner since that was a part of his history. Tall and lean like Usain Bolt.

Who would you pick for Ben Turner? My personal pick would be Michael Jai White.

[Sutekh]

I think Black Lightning should be modeled after an Olympic runner since that was a part of his history. Tall and lean like Usain Bolt.

Yeah, I always saw BL as relatively lean, but lately, he's been portrayed to have a bulkier build very similar to John Stewart (who has always been more buff than leaner GLs like Hal and Kyle).

[4sake Baned]

Heh, I remember this image and it's corresponding Marvel equivalent being posted in an online group of mostly poc comic fans and the DC one was derided for having too many derivatives (black version of white heroes) while the Marvel side had a 'bulletproof black man' and 'king of an uncolonized African country'.

There is a truth to those criticisms but at the same time, the image is missing characters like Ben Turner, Dr Mist and Mal Duncan, plus I think Black Lightning should have a more prominent spot on it. It's also a matter of DC not pushing their originals as they do their spin off heroes.



I remember reading McDuffie/Benes JLA and noting how similarly John Stewart, Icon and Steel were draw but as other posters have pointed out it mostly comes down to art style.



Maybe it's because of how he was drawn in his solo series but I think Steel should be the tallest out of all the characters listed. Like 6'5-6'7.

I think Black Lightning should be modeled after an Olympic runner since that was a part of his history. Tall and lean like Usain Bolt.

Who would you pick for Ben Turner? My personal pick would be Michael Jai White.

No you right Steel should be 6’7 I forgot lol..
Of course MJW needs to Ben & needs to play him in movie asap.
I again BL should be tall/lean that why I put him down at 6’5 like Usain Bolt.

[4sake Baned]

I like this exercise of giving specific faces for each character, but that's very different from how John Henry Irons has been depicted until now. Why him specifically (altough I do love that actor)



Isaiah Mustafa would be a great model for John Stewart. It merges the 70s design with the more modern looks. It's the kind of guy that looks like an actual architect, is good looking without seeming like women are constantly throwing themselves at him, and seems like he has a steady hand for leadership while being able to express revolt, smoothness and regret. It could go a long way towards making him stand out from the other guys mentioned.



All those guys look very different from each other. You should pick one.



Nate Parker for Mister Terrific is a great pick. Maintains this slimmer facial feature and rectangular facial structure.




I like the guy that played Wally on CW better. He has more round features that make him kind of adorable



Nah Jace already has a good distinctive look in Infinite Frontier. Strong jawline and cheekbones along with this really intense forehead that gives him a permanent Kubrick Gaze.

I feel/felt needs a major/distinctive redesign to help raise his profile, also the current design was over used when he invented with with & even more so now & lastly when reading about him I feel coming off similar to some of the character Malcolm-Jamal Warner has played over the years would be a good long term character choice.

With BL - it’s more so about how both those actors give out similar energy while scholar type characters/brothers. I really enjoy how Cress played BL but I’d mix some Terrence C. Carson comics wise on how I’d like for him to come off the page..

[Samm]

Heh, I remember this image and it's corresponding Marvel equivalent being posted in an online group of mostly poc comic fans and the DC one was derided for having too many derivatives (black version of white heroes) while the Marvel side had a 'bulletproof black man' and 'king of an uncolonized African country'.

There is a truth to those criticisms but at the same time, the image is missing characters like Ben Turner, Dr Mist and Mal Duncan, plus I think Black Lightning should have a more prominent spot on it. It's also a matter of DC not pushing their originals as they do their spin off heroes.



I remember reading McDuffie/Benes JLA and noting how similarly John Stewart, Icon and Steel were draw but as other posters have pointed out it mostly comes down to art style.



Maybe it's because of how he was drawn in his solo series but I think Steel should be the tallest out of all the characters listed. Like 6'5-6'7.

I think Black Lightning should be modeled after an Olympic runner since that was a part of his history. Tall and lean like Usain Bolt.

Who would you pick for Ben Turner? My personal pick would be Michael Jai White.

I remember that criticism as well (it’s worse when you look at Asian characters), Native characters seems to be more original though. DC just has a bloated universe of doppelgänger characters, regardless of race simply because it’s easier to introduce a new legacy character than a new original character. The trouble is, they have no idea what to do with all the legacies they’ve established

[Aahz]

There is a truth to those criticisms but at the same time, the image is missing characters like Ben Turner, Dr Mist and Mal Duncan, plus I think Black Lightning should have a more prominent spot on it. It's also a matter of DC not pushing their originals as they do their spin off heroes.

Technically Ben Turner is a spin off hero, he was originally a support Character of Richard Dragon.

When it comes to Mal Duncan he had from the beginning the problem, that already when he was introduced in Teen Titans back in 70s they didn't really had any plan what to do with him (or at least seem to switch it constantly).