Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[skyvolt2000]

Sniff around comichron and I noticed a trend with the DC POC solo books.

Excluding the Green Lanterns since they seem to stay in the 30ks.

Everybody else keep declining in numbers with each passing issue.

While at Marvel (I'm using only Black Panther, Miles & Sam)

They varied in ups and downs.


Cyborg from Rebirth issue to now lost 53,220 issues.

Blue Beetle Rebirth to now- 61419

Super Man issue 1 to now 105345

Superwoman issue 1 to now 77900

Of the DC 4-it took Superwoman the longest to get below 17K. Yet in 2017 she has had the biggest drops of the 4.



To be FAIR-

Black Panther dropped 7K after issue 12

Miles dropped 12K after issue 12

However neither have gotten below 25K

Miles has stayed in the 29 and up

Panther has varied

Sam Wilson ended at 17818 and that was his second lowest of his run. Issue 20 was the lowest 17496.

[Citizen Kane]

A book selling between 30k and 40k is not considered good for anything but indy comics and no-name characters, for DC or Marvel's better known books that is at best mediocre. And while a book in the 20k range may have more wiggle room than previously was allowed the fact is that they are still at risk barring other factors (e.g. a movie coming out or general politics); the next time the companies decide to do some house cleaning they are definitely in danger.

Simply put, none of these books are selling well.

Quoted for truth.

[C_haos]

To be fair building characters and fan bases up take time if your trying to build a franchise player like D.C. Is with Cyborg they have to show the same commitment that they have to Beetle.

New Super Man is a different story it started off as a pet project but it's gained some fans the character may have some legs.

[Iconic]

Truth be told, the biggest difference is how they are used.

Marvel shows that Miles, Black Panther & Sam matter by using them in their crown jewel big events. By making them major players or the catalyst to their big storylines. It shows the fans that Marvel is for real about them and that they matter just as much as the other Marvel Mainstays.

Can't say that about DC.

Let us see the updated Black Lightning as a major player in an upcoming DC event. Show us Cyborg as a central character in a major storyline.

Oddly enough, it seems like Duke/The Signal might getting a little bit of a spotlight but with DC you can't take that for granted.

[dzub]

Marvel markets their POC characters better ?

[Red Wolf]

Truth be told, the biggest difference is how they are used.

Marvel shows that Miles, Black Panther & Sam matter by using them in their crown jewel big events. By making them major players or the catalyst to their big storylines. It shows the fans that Marvel is for real about them and that they matter just as much as the other Marvel Mainstays. Can't say that about DC.

Yep. Totally agree.

[mathew101281]

Cyborg is a very poor character to use as your your poster minority character. His visual is very boring and his wish fulfillment element is non existent. Plus removing his Titans roots doesn't really do him much favors since that's primarily what he's known for.

Vixen has a cool power set but it's not the most visually interesting power set, which is kind of a big deal in a visual medium.

Jon Stewart suffers from the fact that he is one of many. It's hard to be a marquee player in a role when their is several characters who have the same role and are almost as popular.

Static is a milstone character and thus his rights situation will probably always affect how DC sees him and uses him.

Mr Terrific suffers from the fact that he has a pretty generic power.

A lot of the other Minority characters suffer from th fact that they are duplicates, or remakes of established characters and are doomed to always be compared to their predecessors. And no ones going to look good being compared to character with 20, 30 or 40 years of publication and fan investment.

I feel it's going to take some real imaginative thinking on DC's part to fix this.

[TheFerg714]

Show us Cyborg as a central character in a major storyline.

He was the central character to the Justice League tie-in to Forever Evil and the second most important factor in the defeat of the Crime Syndicate, after Lex.

[Aahz]

Sniff around comichron and I noticed a trend with the DC POC solo books.

Excluding the Green Lanterns since they seem to stay in the 30ks.

Everybody else keep declining in numbers with each passing issue.

While at Marvel (I'm using only Black Panther, Miles & Sam)

They varied in ups and downs.


Cyborg from Rebirth issue to now lost 53,220 issues.

Blue Beetle Rebirth to now- 61419

Super Man issue 1 to now 105345

Superwoman issue 1 to now 77900

Of the DC 4-it took Superwoman the longest to get below 17K. Yet in 2017 she has had the biggest drops of the 4.



To be FAIR-

Black Panther dropped 7K after issue 12

Miles dropped 12K after issue 12

However neither have gotten below 25K

Miles has stayed in the 29 and up

Panther has varied

Sam Wilson ended at 17818 and that was his second lowest of his run. Issue 20 was the lowest 17496.

Drops from issue #1 are not a good measure. The number 1 issues sell allways much better than the later issues, it is totally comon that the sales drop to roughly 50% of what the first issue sold, and Rebirth was so hyped that the numbers for the the #1 issues were even bigger which lead in most cases to even bigger drops (Batman sold initially 280K and is now back to 100K).

[kurenai24]

Who the hell knows ...well actually I think we all do, DC has groomed their consumers to be close-minded and adverse to change and they've hired individuals who want to bring back their nostalgia more than actually work on and improve a business. Those hiring practices fuel the fan base we see today.

When I think of Marvel I think of those scenes in scifi movies that talk about building an amazing future and the steps we need to take to get there, and those scientists or innovators in those movies always look so happy and determined, and yet when I think about DC, I think about the comments from individuals who post pictures of diners, poodle skirts, and vintage cars with the add-on of words being "I wish the world was still like the 50's" forgetting the fact that the minority population would literally suffer mentally, physically, and emotionally if the world went back in time.

It doesn't take long to realize that as long as the character is white they will get a chance and even more so a push by DC ...which is more than likely why certain females (who are not Wonder Woman/Harley Quinn/Catwoman) and lgbt characters get certain chances at all cause if they were racial minorities they would be on the shelf collecting dust, the whiteness of the character saves them in some regard, although the otherness of them doesn't ever truly go away and we see that through sales or just the general disregard for them.

DC will push characters that fit their narrative, Cyborg is their black token, Wonder Woman is their female token, Jamie's Blue Beetle is their latino token, Batwoman is their lgbt token, and Harley Quinn is just in right now.

Wonder Woman is a part of the trinity, and has been around a long time, so she doesn't need a push but DC benefits on the gender of the character, but the rest are being pushed to serve a purpose and not b/c DC genuinely believes they can do well or even likes the characters and that can be so obvious to an audience.

DC comics will always be Decidedly Caucasian comics. You can't effect change from the bottom up. It must happen from the top down. Those at the top are decidedly Caucasian. It's almost been fifty years ago when Neal Adams had to fight to breath life into John Stewart. How is John Stewart doing in 2017?

I laugh b/c it's true, oh god someone please save Vixen.

[CliffHanger2]

Blades comics have been trash since the early 90's the only thing that saved him was Wesley snipes movies, which saved marvel movies before the X-men.

I'm all for more diverse comics from DC but I don't want them putting out the amount of bookMarvel is because its obvious Marvel is fucking stretched thin and almost their whole line is suffering because of it. I like that more diverse characters pop up in marvel but Alot of them start to blend together because they use the same character trait over again it fucking pisses me off.

Minority, Teenage Girl, Super genius. It pisses me off how many marvel diverse characters are just the same character poured out into a another suit. Its part of the Reason I'm glad Nadia pyms book went down in flames. I hope America goes down also because that **** is aweful. Also **** Carol Danvers. She should not have been Captain marvel, That should have Been Monica Rambeau who was a much more interesting character but no one wanted to push the black girl to be Marvels Wonder Woman but they had to push the blandest white girl in comcis.

You all need to get off your high horse about DC diversity. They can do better but they also aren't putting out an extra 30 books in their core area to water down their bottom line. They are making sure Characters get their due instead of putting them out in a series to die. Also they are putting up different lines. Also People tend to forget That Damian Wayne is is Arab just because he is a light skinned Arab, like they don't exist.

I agree with some of what you are saying but at the same time, DC does seem to be dragging their feet. Or they give a character like Val Zod a push they start to grow in popularity and then boom-nothing. all of a sudden the character is back to the background.

[ed2962]

Which in Blue Beetles case kind of odd, if you comsider that they seem to have no problem to put him in the League or the Titans in games and animation.

Does the League even have a leader? I'm not really following the modern incarnation but at least the classic version had just a rotating chairman (or woman).

Sorry but these two guys are way to obscure, but Cyborg was iirc leader of the titans


I could see Katana, Diablo doesn't seem much of a leader. Btw. did Katana ever lead the Outsiders? At least Black Lighting did that iirc.

I think Vixen was temporarily leader of JL for a moment?

[mace11]

A book selling between 30k and 40k is not considered good for anything but indy comics and no-name characters, for DC or Marvel's better known books that is at best mediocre. And while a book in the 20k range may have more wiggle room than previously was allowed the fact is that they are still at risk barring other factors (e.g. a movie coming out or general politics); the next time the companies decide to do some house cleaning they are definitely in danger.

Simply put, none of these books are selling well.

Not true.You are still going by the old standards.
Mighty thor and titans for example today would be good or really good selling books.Back in 80's or 90's it would not be.
Below that it would be but some books have gone on longer until the story was told etc..
There is no way most books today is selling over 100k or over 50k or even 40k,no matter how good they are etc..
TV ratings standards have change too.
For example the flash show on cw is considered high or have really good ratings for the cw or tv today.Back in 90's or early for example,not so good.


And this was posted in the other forum to make another point.

Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin
I would like to see books like Monsters Unleashed be sent to digital at a slightly lower price other than be outright cancelled. I think that would help spur a move to the digital format and give some books a chance to breath out side the direct market.

Agreed. The thing is even books that only sell 10-15K copies as single issues make money for Marvel. Mind, not a lot of money but enough to pay standard rates for the entire creative team, printing costs and distribution so they're self-sufficient at the very least. Reckon that's why Marvel hasn't felt the urgency to test digital first until now.

http://community.comicbookresources....st-2017/page25

[The Darknight Detective]

A book selling between 30k and 40k is not considered good for anything but indy comics and no-name characters, for DC or Marvel's better known books that is at best mediocre. And while a book in the 20k range may have more wiggle room than previously was allowed the fact is that they are still at risk barring other factors (e.g. a movie coming out or general politics); the next time the companies decide to do some house cleaning they are definitely in danger.

Simply put, none of these books are selling well.

I guess it depends on your perspective. 30-40K is average today, so that isn't either good nor bad. OTOH, compared to the Golden Age, even the top sellers today look dreadful compared to what was selling back then.

[mace11]

Added/edited info above.

Not true.You are still going by the old standards.
Mighty thor and titans for example today would be good or really good selling books,not mediocre.Back in 80's or 90's it would not be.Mediocre today would be below 30k to 20k.
20k to 17k would be bad but not in cancel territory.
Below that it would be but some books have gone on longer until the story was told etc..
There is no way most books today is selling over 100k or over 50k or even 40k,no matter how good they are etc..
TV ratings standards have change too.
For example the flash show on cw is considered high or have really good ratings for the cw or tv today.Back in 90's or early for example,not so good.

By the way many forget that prices have gone UP.
Back then comics sold less then 2 dollars and you could get them in stores,newsstand etc..
Today comics sell much higher and you could get them digitally as well.
I would say
17k/11k to 19k - bad to so and so to good/cancellation varies-depending on the book and writer.
20k to 29k - good,but not really good.
30k to 49k -very good/really good.
50k and up -great to excellent.
100k and up would be excellent.