Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Aahz]

Turkey so now there's discord as fans are pissed accusing the writer of trying to claim The one good Arabian Character who isn't a Terrorist.

That kind of shows the problem when it comes to "middle eastern representation", you have there in the end of the day a bunch of ethnicity that don't like each other that much, and don't appreciate if you throw them all in the same bucket (to put it mildly). Not that it is much better in other parts of the world (including Europe).

Personally (as a middle european) I find the idea of Damian being "Arabian" a little wired since Ras etnicity was never really specified, and what ever upbringing Damian had not much to with middle eastern culture.

The ethnicity of Talias mother is also kind of unclear (I think there some source that said she is partly Chinese).

And if we go with the never retcons about Martha Damian would also be partly Jewish...

[Common Writer]

Currently speaking, DC is truly trying HARD in the diversity front.

1) John Stewart, Jo Mullein, Simon Baz and the kid GL have an ongoing series

2) Aqualad is getting his series

3) Black Manta is getting his series

4) Shilo Norman Mr Miracle has a series

5) Calvin Ellis/President Superman is leading the Infinity Frontier and will be showing up more in the future

6) Jace Fox is "the Next Batman" with a series and another series to follow

7) New Brazilian Wonder woman has a series

8) Damian as Robin also has a series

All this in less than one year.

Guys, y'all can NOT tell me the DC is not trying hard and putting in effort towards diversity.

The way I see it, DC wouldn't have needed to race-swap their characters, if they would have just kept Milestone going since the 90s.

[hairys]

Middle Eastern and Arab fans latch on to Damian because he's the only representation they have, not because he is a good representation who managed to outshine everyone else. This extends towards the Al Ghul clan in general. Who else do they have? Black Adam? Osiris? Janissary? Nightrunner? Even Adam falls into the same problematic tropes as Damian since his whole thing is being excessively violent and needing to be kept in check by other (usually white) characters.

Meanwhile, Marvel is pushing Kamala Khan and once they get around to X-Men and Captain Britain, they'll have Dusk and Faiza Hussein as well.

Many consider Dust to be a black mark against Marvel, not something to be proud of. She's a middle-easterner with the power of sand, lol.

[Agent Z]

They dont have to be but the danger, imo, is that if everyone is supposed to be a "positive role model" you just end up with reskins of the 1000s of characters that have been and gone before just with a different pantone for the skin. That's not much a story - great guy/woman, something happens, the hero tries to stop it, fails, it gets worse, then hero rallys and does stop it, rinse and repeat. There isnt anything wrong with that story but there are already over 100 of those stories published every month. Just changing the ethnicity or gender or sexuality of the character isnt going to be enough to make it work imo. Those kind of ideas are already doomed for the 50c long boxes.

Most people, if any, do not want all characters to be role models. Netflix recently dropped a trailer for a movie in which Regina King and Idris Elba, among other black actors, play outlaws in the west. The trailer has gotten a lot of positive reception, especially from black viewers.

Furthermore, this argument presumes that there is some abundance of minority leads who are role models. On the contrary, it is arguably easier to find examples that aren't and to get them to be made. Blade, the first black Marvel superhero to have a movie, was not written as a role model. Don't even get me started on stuff like retconning Falcon into a pimp.

Finally, there are hundreds of stories about white antiheroes as well. By the logic of your argument, there is no need for a black antihero because characters like the Punisher or John Constantine exist.

These types of arguments only seem to come up when people either point out how common racial stereotypes still are or when someone tries to write a minority character in a non-stereotypical way and gets accused of "virtue signaling".

[Besouro]

The way I see it, DC wouldn't have needed to race-swap their characters, if they would have just kept Milestone going since the 90s.

You have basically added the 9th point to my list because Milestone media is officially back.

And correction....creating new characters (legacy characters or not) that happen to be a different race is NOT raceswapping.

Raceswapping is when the race of an existing character is changed without making a new character.

The new character of a different race inheriting a mantle is not raceswapping for instance Michael Holt being Mister Terrific is NOT the same guy as the one that existing before him, same for the new Brazilian Wonder Girl. And in many cases the new legacy character of a different race CO-EXIST with the original characters of the mantle such as Calvin Ellis, Kenan and Val Zod co-exist with Clark Kent co-sharing "SUPERMAN" as their mantle despite Kent being the first original. Another is Jace Fox as Batman co-existing with Bruce Wayne; same with Ted Kord and Jamie Reyes as Blue Beetle and others.

And let's not forget that DC has so mde MANY diverse characters (not just blacks) that are NOT legacy based. Not many have made it big or caught on but they are there.

[Besouro]

Many consider Dust to be a black mark against Marvel, not something to be proud of. She's a middle-easterner with the power of sand, lol.

Do u also complain when an Asian has martial arts skills?!? Is that also a "black mark"?!?

[Agent Z]

Do u also complain when an Asian has martial arts skills?!? Is that also a "black mark"?!?

That kind of thing gets criticized too.

[Fergus]

And there are plenty more who don't and wish DC would do more with the minority characters who were created as minorities.



And why should they only have to settle for those scraps?

Readers shouldn't have to settle.
Hopefully DC will create more original minority characters

[iron chimp]

Most people, if any, do not want all characters to be role models. Netflix recently dropped a trailer for a movie in which Regina King and Idris Elba, among other black actors, play outlaws in the west. The trailer has gotten a lot of positive reception, especially from black viewers.

Furthermore, this argument presumes that there is some abundance of minority leads who are role models. On the contrary, it is arguably easier to find examples that aren't and to get them to be made. Blade, the first black Marvel superhero to have a movie, was not written as a role model. Don't even get me started on stuff like retconning Falcon into a pimp.

Finally, there are hundreds of stories about white antiheroes as well. By the logic of your argument, there is no need for a black antihero because characters like the Punisher or John Constantine exist.

These types of arguments only seem to come up when people either point out how common racial stereotypes still are or when someone tries to write a minority character in a non-stereotypical way and gets accused of "virtue signaling".

this was in reference to the link fergus posted where role models and representation were mentioned in tweets by other people.


If you want to point out racial stereotyping then thats your thing but if someone is telling me "oh this black crime comic is really good" Im def not going to care if someone else thinks it might be perpetuating stereotypes, I'm going to check it and if i like it im going to continue reading it.

[abetterday]

What concerns me at the moment are that currently they are only focusing on minority characters that are tied to established white characters such as the Next batman, Mr. Terrific and John Stewart. And not on characters like Cyborg, Black Lightning and others that are original. Also the Milestone creators, writers and artists rarely work on any DC black characters outside of Milestone. and they are not given the opportunity to be showcased in the Black Label line.

[Besouro]

That kind of thing gets criticized too.

Nope.

Not in the context you are saying.

The complaint is that they want diversity of talent or power given to Asian characters not having all Asians being basically exactly the same which is how we get some good with tech and others with elemental powers and others being associated and/or have similar powers with pre-existing characters like Chinese Superman/ Kenan and others who are uniquely original, etc.

How many Arab/Middle Eastern comicbook characters have sand powers compared to Asian characters with martial arts skills and black characters with electricity powers!?

EDIT:

By the way, it's dependent on the writing..... Many characters can have similar abilities but written brilliantly enough to make them mutually unique. Just look at the many black characters with electrical powers and the many with martial arts as the primary power and the many with elemental (fire, wind, water, earth) based type of powers and the very many with super-speed as their primary superpower, etc, etc.

NOTE:

I am NOT saying than I condone creative broadstrokes of whole type of people in monotony of similarity

[Alpha]

Mr Terrific is barely acknowledged aa having had a predecessor. And his predecessor is totally irrelevant. I've never read a story about him, and I'm not aware of any fans of the golden age version.

Otherwise, I agree that there is a lack of independent POC heroes, but Naomi is the most pushed new character in quite a while. I mean, I don't care about her, but she is being heavily pushed. She just joined the Justice League after 2 years and is gonna have a TV show.

[hairys]

Do u also complain when an Asian has martial arts skills?!? Is that also a "black mark"?!?

*I* don't complain at all. I love Asian martial artists, and I would guess I'm one of the least politically correct posters on CBR.

But, still. A Middle-Eastern with sand powers? It's farcically bad, haha. (Maybe she can have Aquaman-man like ability to communicate with camels, too?)

[Robotman]

Do u also complain when an Asian has martial arts skills?!? Is that also a "black mark"?!?

While there are far too many Asian with stereotypical powers and backstories, that’s not the same thing or as messed up as a middle eastern character being given sand powers.

[Besouro]

What concerns me at the moment are that currently they are only focusing on minority characters that are tied to established white characters such as the Next batman, Mr. Terrific and John Stewart. And not on characters like Cyborg, Black Lightning and others that are original. Also the Milestone creators, writers and artists rarely work on any DC black characters outside of Milestone. and they are not given the opportunity to be showcased in the Black Label line.

Deny Cowan, Dwayne McDuffie (RIP) and Reginald Hudkin have done work on black DC characters.

And hasn't DC also had other Asian and Hispanic and black superhero characters get light novels?

The original Mr Terrific is a character from the bottom of the abyss of limbo before Michael Holt was given the title.

John Stewart is part of a cosmic police force and he did NOT inherit the GL mantle from Hal.

I can only agree on Next Batman.... There are already waaay too many bat sidekicks and spinoff characters. Too many.

Black Lightning was given his own live action tv series, had a mini series a few years ago and was the lead in the Batman n the outsiders from a few months ago....and with Milestone's STATIC now with a new comic series, it would be very redundant to also gave BL his own comic. Next thing you know y'all will complain that DC is trying to undermine and sabotage Static's comic.

Cyborg got a big push in New 52 and was given his solo series that lasted about 20 issues.....but DC honestly and I suspect deliberately butchered Cyborg's potential because they barred and refused writer to explore Cyborg's connection to the New Gods through the motherbox that had literally become his body. Why was the motherbox not sentient?... Why refuse writers to establish stories between Cyborg and the New Gods?...His name is Cyborg not Half-face robot, he should have more flesh than just a half-face?...and why ignore all the progress of the Cyborg solo??? SIGHHH!!!!

Vixen is in live action in the DC Legends CW tv series (terribly used on that show, utter Rubbish) and was given his own animated mini-series (compiled into a movie) which was truly superb and has appearances here and there in truth and justice. But its not enough, she is looong overdue deserving of a chance at a solo series or at least a 12 issues maxi-series for a start.

Silencer also had a series

Vibe, Sideways, Jaime Reyes blue beetle, etc.

I agree about that original characters should be given more shine but I am NOT against diverse legacy characters and)or spin off characters. All of them can co-exist with each other AND even the original characters....it's all in the writing as long as effort is maintained.