Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[MajorHoy]

Truth be told, the biggest difference is how they are used.

Marvel shows that Miles, Black Panther & Sam matter by using them in their crown jewel big events. By making them major players or the catalyst to their big storylines. It shows the fans that Marvel is for real about them and that they matter just as much as the other Marvel Mainstays.

Depends on whether people like "EVENTS" as to whether including them or not is a benefit. If a person is buying a character's book, they may not want the "EVENT" to interfere with the on-going story, and the reader may be just as likely to drop the title if it ties in too closely to the "EVENT"/other titles the reader is not interested in buying. And even if the character doesn't have their own title, how they get included in the "EVENT" can also be problematic if the person writing the "EVENT" does a poor job how the character is portrayed.

Added/edited info above.

By the way many forget that prices have gone UP.
Back then comics sold less then 2 dollars and you could get them in stores,newsstand etc..
Today comics sell much higher and you could get them digitally as well.

Don't forget how the access to those same issues worth of stories has changed when it comes to collected editions. In the past few years, it seems almost everything gets put into a collected edition, and the turnaround time between when the last single issue gets published and when the collected edition is solicited is much shorter than it was maybe +/-five-to-ten years ago.
(And in Marvel's case, I wonder how their Unlimited digital offerings are impacting the report single issue sales through Diamond?)

[Red Wolf]

Red, black, brown, and yellow are colors DC would rather see on a character's costume than on his skin.

[skyvolt2000]

Depends on whether people like "EVENTS" as to whether including them or not is a benefit. If a person is buying a character's book, they may not want the "EVENT" to interfere with the on-going story, and the reader may be just as likely to drop the title if it ties in too closely to the "EVENT"/other titles the reader is not interested in buying. And even if the character doesn't have their own title, how they get included in the "EVENT" can also be problematic if the person writing the "EVENT" does a poor job how the character is portrayed.

Carol Danvers says HI from Civil War 2.

I HATE events and really hate them with they screw up books.

I did drop Sam Wilson when that Return of Steve storyline started up and had planned to pick it up afterwards. Used book stores for those few issues is the only reason I have them. Same with PM & IF's Civil War issues.

I found event issues share a common destination-BINS. So it's a case of not bothering with those side issues until then.

And in Marvel's case, I wonder how their Unlimited digital offerings are impacting the report single issue sales through Diamond

I say it does if your store does not sell or REFUSES to sell a book.

I think it might help trade sales be it personal or school library or public library related.

It won't help the floppy. Probably hurts it more in the long run.

[El_Gato]

Some new minority characters popping up in December/January with Dark Matter. A team book for The Immortal Men, and solos for Silencer (Black) and Sideways (Latino). Let's see how long they'll stick around!

On a side note, with Sideways addition, DC will have 3 Latino led titles! I think that's the most they've ever had at once (goes up to 4 if you count Bane's Maxi series).

[Sodam Yat]

Yeah, it was definitely a retcon and he wasn't intended to be Latino by Marz. I don't really think it would have impacted his sales (at least significantly) if he'd been Latino from the start, but even so, yeah, his status as top dog here IS debatable. I mean, it's not like any of us have brought up Dick Grayson into this conversation despite him being retconned as having Romani heritage.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly don't personally think if Kyle was made Latino from the start it would make such a big difference on readers to the point where it's sales would make a negative impact towards earlier cancellation and having an earlier Rebirth of Hal's return. But even after the retcon, some readers still perceived Kyle as a white male, since that story on what Judd Winick wrote was very brief and haven't been brought up since. This did changed on what Tom King did with Kyle (same what he did with Dick Grayson). So I agree.

[kurenai24]

Red, black, brown, and yellow are colors DC would rather see on a character's costume than on his skin.

Bloop.

I would like this on a shirt.

Some new minority characters popping up in December/January with Dark Matter. A team book for The Immortal Men, and solos for Silencer (Black) and Sideways (Latino). Let's see how long they'll stick around!

On a side note, with Sideways addition, DC will have 3 Latino led titles! I think that's the most they've ever had at once (goes up to 4 if you count Bane's Maxi series).

Damn it, Sideways was the only book I was gonna check out, mainly for the art and the black female supporting character, but also b/c it's spider-man lite and the summary was interesting and so were the characters and their design.

And now Silencer is apparently black (I say apparently b/c she could be a brown-skinned latina) but her whole premise is a bore, she has the added bonus of having baggage in the name of family ...like can black female characters stop being forever alone b/c they are a strong indpendent woman who don't need no man or tied down with kid(s) and a husband *cough*bumblebee*cough*, can they not just be young and date, can they not just be in a bf/gf type of relationship, like goddamn can they not just have fun in the love department like their whiter counterparts.

*sigh* I'm starting to rant and veer into a whole other subject, but if DC can't even take a chance and give one of their oldest black female characters i.e Vixen an ongoing like she's owed, I don't expect much from this book, I mean this is the same company that is/was pushing Deathstroke and yet was hiring writers who couldn't write him well before Priest and now I'm suppose to think this female version of him is gonna fare better...

Hahaha

Yeah no, I expect her to disappear in one to two years and if she winds up being a lesbian, I expect her to pop up after her disappearance and die in some capacity in the future b/c DC doesn't avoid problematic tropes, *sigh* saying all of that I'll still support the book b/c my signature isn't there for decorations.

My rant did remind me that DC is very lackluster in action when it comes to their minority characters, they do half ass jobs, they don't usually hire their high talent of witers or artists to work on their books with minority characters, and they don't spend time advertising their minority led books, the only reason we see this with Silencer or Sideways is b/c DC is kicking off some off-shoot section of their universe.

And doesn't it say something that their focus on diverse characters is happening in an imprint line, yeah that imprint line is a part of the main universe but it's off to the side, and once again DC is showing how not intelligent they are and the message this essentially sends.

[Agent Z]

Bloop.

I would like this on a shirt.



Damn it, Sideways was the only book I was gonna check out, mainly for the art and the black female supporting character, but also b/c it's spider-man lite and the summary was interesting and so were the characters and their design.

And now Silencer is apparently black (I say apparently b/c she could be a brown-skinned latina) but her whole premise is a bore, she has the added bonus of having baggage in the name of family ...like can black female characters stop being forever alone b/c they are a strong indpendent woman who don't need no man or tied down with kid(s) and a husband *cough*bumblebee*cough*, can they not just be young and date, can they not just be in a bf/gf type of relationship, like goddamn can they not just have fun in the love department like their whiter counterparts.

*sigh* I'm starting to rant and veer into a whole other subject, but if DC can't even take a chance and give one of their oldest black female characters i.e Vixen an ongoing like she's owed, I don't expect much from this book, I mean this is the same company that is/was pushing Deathstroke and yet was hiring writers who couldn't write him well before Priest and now I'm suppose to think this female version of him is gonna fare better...

Hahaha

Yeah no, I expect her to disappear in one to two years and if she winds up being a lesbian, I expect her to pop up after her disappearance and die in some capacity in the future b/c DC doesn't avoid problematic tropes, *sigh* saying all of that I'll still support the book b/c my signature isn't there for decorations.

My rant did remind me that DC is very lackluster in action when it comes to their minority characters, they do half ass jobs, they don't usually hire their high talent of witers or artists to work on their books with minority characters, and they don't spend time advertising their minority led books, the only reason we see this with Silencer or Sideways is b/c DC is kicking off some off-shoot section of their universe.

And doesn't it say something that their focus on diverse characters is happening in an imprint line, yeah that imprint line is a part of the main universe but it's off to the side, and once again DC is showing how not intelligent they are and the message this essentially sends.

I'm not seeing a lack of young black female characters who are happy. I don't see either DC or Marvel depicting them as alone and as for having kids, only Silencer and Bumblebee have them and this isn't "tying them down" (a really insulting phrase for real life mothers) anymore than it does Batman or Black Lightning

[ed2962]

I'm not seeing a lack of young black female characters. I don't see either DC or Marvel depicting them as alone and as for having kids, only Silencer and Bumblebee have them and this isn't "tying them down" (a really insulting phrase for real life mothers) anymore than it does Batman or Black Lightning

I agree. I don't see black superheroes having kids or spouses as a negative thing.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

I still think John Stewart deserves more respect. He should be in the JL film.

[Assam]

I still think John Stewart deserves more respect. He should be in the JL film.

You know what would be hilarious? If instead of having a GL in the film, they gave Jon Stewart a cameo.

[Frontier]

You know what would be hilarious? If instead of having a GL in the film, they gave Jon Stewart a cameo.

Well, they could always make the same joke GL:TAS did .

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

You know what would be hilarious? If instead of having a GL in the film, they gave Jon Stewart a cameo.

I can see that working because the bad guys are from outer space, right? Batman calls in a favor and instead of Hal showing up with the intel--it's John Stewart.

[J. D. Guy]

Cyborg is a very poor character to use as your your poster minority character. His visual is very boring and his wish fulfillment element is non existent. Plus removing his Titans roots doesn't really do him much favors since that's primarily what he's known for.

On the flipside, I'd say Cyborg would/should work wonders as a focal point, due entirely to his tech powers. They have an awesome, near-endless ceiling of possibilities and coolnesses, if made use of well. (If.)

His Titans origin wouldn't even factor (and is generally used as an excuse, anyway).

[kurenai24]

I'm not seeing a lack of young black female characters who are happy. I don't see either DC or Marvel depicting them as alone and as for having kids, only Silencer and Bumblebee have them and this isn't "tying them down" (a really insulting phrase for real life mothers) anymore than it does Batman or Black Lightning

I agree. I don't see black superheroes having kids or spouses as a negative thing.

Putting my response to both, starting with the bold.

I'm not talking about emotions, I was talking about the overall trope of black female characters in media in general in my rant, basically the desexualization or the general removal.

I'm sure you know what desexualitization means but for removal I'm gonna use an example with comic characters. So using Titans, these are some early to mid late 20's something characters, say they finish a mission and want to hang out in a club or something, everybody is a go except bumblebee b/c she has a family and she really misses them or whatever, so her white counterparts get to further bond, have fun, be entertaining for the audience and the black female character is stuck being the literal stereotype of an adult with the excuse of her family being the reason why, but all the while she's removed from the main group, she's removed from the bigger scene (which would obviously be with the group), and she's removed from connecting with the audience in a fun way.

Now in comics it may be different with the panels and stuff, but in a tv series or in a movie, the whole thing I've just described I've seen play out similarly multiple times, most likely b/c the majority of what I watch is teen drama/young adult shows, and you can count how much screen time is dedicated to what, and with that you know which is more important to the show/movie and you can generally see who the audience is being more receptive to, so I don't care for it and I don't care about seeing it done with Bumblebee and Silencer.

Is it bad thing to have in comics... no, but if we're talking about media in general it's just another number in a long list of what black characters are generally stuck with.

As for my word usage, ...tbh, I don't care about how my words come across, I'm a female, the gender with the equipment to pop out a rugrat, and I'm under no illusion how writers tend to write families or babies/kids, (or mothers or just females in general) they're like a homing beacon for danger, the many tropes that writers use b/c they don't have the imagination to write up something unique, it's annoying. So yeah I will call kids baggage(s) for dragging storylines down, for not listening in the in most inopportune time, etc, and I will continue to refer to families as if they are weights holding down a character's full potential b/c they usually are, but it's in reference to how they're written in media, not in real life, like you seemed to have applied it to for some reason.

[HereNThere]

I'm sure you know what desexualitization means but for removal I'm gonna use an example with comic characters. So using Titans, these are some early to mid late 20's something characters, say they finish a mission and want to hang out in a club or something, everybody is a go except bumblebee b/c she has a family and she really misses them or whatever, so her white counterparts get to further bond, have fun, be entertaining for the audience and the black female character is stuck being the literal stereotype of an adult with the excuse of her family being the reason why, but all the while she's removed from the main group, she's removed from the bigger scene (which would obviously be with the group), and she's removed from connecting with the audience in a fun way.

Now in comics it may be different with the panels and stuff, but in a tv series or in a movie, the whole thing I've just described I've seen play out similarly multiple times, most likely b/c the majority of what I watch is teen drama/young adult shows, and you can count how much screen time is dedicated to what, and with that you know which is more important to the show/movie and you can generally see who the audience is being more receptive to, so I don't care for it and I don't care about seeing it done with Bumblebee and Silencer.

Is it bad thing to have in comics... no, but if we're talking about media in general it's just another number in a long list of what black characters are generally stuck with.

This is something I've also noticed. It's not as common in comics, but it does pop up more often in other forms of media. There's nothing bad with having a family, but as you said, usually the character doesn't get to interact with others outside of their workplace or whatever.