Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[Johnny]

I still think John Stewart deserves more respect. He should be in the JL film.

He absolutely does. And so does that other guy who was already given a turd sandwich by WB once. It's not right to disgrace this character like that and then disrespect him even further by skipping him over. Of course, this is a moot point since neither of the two is in the JL movie, as well as WB having trouble getting their "main" characters off the ground, let alone the Lanterns, but it leaves some food for thought nonetheless.

[DragonsChi]

Some new minority characters popping up in December/January with Dark Matter. A team book for The Immortal Men, and solos for Silencer (Black) and Sideways (Latino). Let's see how long they'll stick around!

On a side note, with Sideways addition, DC will have 3 Latino led titles! I think that's the most they've ever had at once (goes up to 4 if you count Bane's Maxi series).

I hate the name "Sideways" but the character and concept does sound interesting. Hope to hear more about him, may pick up the title.

[Agent Z]

Putting my response to both, starting with the bold.

I'm not talking about emotions, I was talking about the overall trope of black female characters in media in general in my rant, basically the desexualization or the general removal.

I'm sure you know what desexualitization means but for removal I'm gonna use an example with comic characters. So using Titans, these are some early to mid late 20's something characters, say they finish a mission and want to hang out in a club or something, everybody is a go except bumblebee b/c she has a family and she really misses them or whatever, so her white counterparts get to further bond, have fun, be entertaining for the audience and the black female character is stuck being the literal stereotype of an adult with the excuse of her family being the reason why, but all the while she's removed from the main group, she's removed from the bigger scene (which would obviously be with the group), and she's removed from connecting with the audience in a fun way.

Now in comics it may be different with the panels and stuff, but in a tv series or in a movie, the whole thing I've just described I've seen play out similarly multiple times, most likely b/c the majority of what I watch is teen drama/young adult shows, and you can count how much screen time is dedicated to what, and with that you know which is more important to the show/movie and you can generally see who the audience is being more receptive to, so I don't care for it and I don't care about seeing it done with Bumblebee and Silencer.

Is it bad thing to have in comics... no, but if we're talking about media in general it's just another number in a long list of what black characters are generally stuck with.

As for my word usage, ...tbh, I don't care about how my words come across, I'm a female, the gender with the equipment to pop out a rugrat, and I'm under no illusion how writers tend to write families or babies/kids, (or mothers or just females in general) they're like a homing beacon for danger, the many tropes that writers use b/c they don't have the imagination to write up something unique, it's annoying. So yeah I will call kids baggage(s) for dragging storylines down, for not listening in the in most inopportune time, etc, and I will continue to refer to families as if they are weights holding down a character's full potential b/c they usually are, but it's in reference to how they're written in media, not in real life, like you seemed to have applied it to for some reason.

Okay fair enough. But this hasn't really happened with Bumblebee and with Silencer, it's too early to tell.

[Red Wolf]

DC ain't exactly loaded with Lakota or Cheyenne superheroes. Apache Chief is a joke. Manitou Raven is supposed to be from the Obsidian age of Atlantis? A progenitor of the Apache tribe? Totally bullshit. Manitou spirits are associated with First Nation people of northern southern Canada ,and some Midwestern tribes in US. Not the south west. That's an entirely different culture.

[Sodam Yat]

He absolutely does. And so does that other guy who was already given a turd sandwich by WB once. It's not right to disgrace this character like that and then disrespect him even further by skipping him over. Of course, this is a moot point since neither of the two is in the JL movie, as well as WB having trouble getting their "main" characters off the ground, let alone the Lanterns, but it leaves some food for thought nonetheless.

John Stewart has been disrespected as well. Probably even more so.

[mathew101281]

On the flipside, I'd say Cyborg would/should work wonders as a focal point, due entirely to his tech powers. They have an awesome, near-endless ceiling of possibilities and coolnesses, if made use of well. (If.)

His Titans origin wouldn't even factor (and is generally used as an excuse, anyway).

I didn't say he's a bad character, I said is power visuals and skill set aren't really indicative of a lead actor. His tech based powers seem more at home in a team dynamic then as a solo act. Plus he's way over do for a visual upgrade. His bulky look is more reminiscent of old 80's or 90's tech then modern or futuristic tech. Plus their is the whole unfortunate ramifications of having your primary black hero on your biggest team being the one that is the mutilated possibly castrated one.

[skyvolt2000]

He absolutely does. And so does that other guy who was already given a turd sandwich by WB once. It's not right to disgrace this character like that and then disrespect him even further by skipping him over. Of course, this is a moot point since neither of the two is in the JL movie, as well as WB having trouble getting their "main" characters off the ground, let alone the Lanterns, but it leaves some food for thought nonetheless.

Who Dc wants and the public wants are two different beasts.

There is no rule to say you can't start with all 4 or 6 guys already lanterns. We really don't need an origin story. I would leave that to some anthology series on dvd or the DC app.

It's not Hal's fault DC has dropped the ball after he stopped appearing outside of comics in 1986 and FAILED to develop a black character (let alone POC) until John Stewart showed up on Justice League.

That film was too many cooks in the kitchen and a HUGE failure to understand what John Stewart meant to so many-especially those who haven't had black heroes. A scene with John already in his suit with recruits talking about Hal's first mission at the start would have helped. It might not help profits but at least you showed John around.

DC's issue they want the greatest films made instead of just making films that ANYONE can watch-which is what many view the Marvel films as. Nothing great but good enough to entertain for a few hours.

No one (except Cyborg) should be this hard to do.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

I've heard the theory that because Cyborg is half machine he doesn't come across as a fully developed, archetypal African American male superhero. I heard the argument about Spawn. Yes. Al Simmons is a black man, but what you see as Spawn in no way reflects the reality of "blackness," John Stewart, on the other hand, possesses all the making of a complete self-actualized black superhero.

[Johnny]

John Stewart has been disrespected as well. Probably even more so.

Only in the comics, that just us fans are aware of. Not on a mainstream level to the point of where both the character and the brand became a laughing stock. You're right that DC should do better by John, but WB should do better by Hal.

Who Dc wants and the public wants are two different beasts.

Don't even try to start the "cartoon vs comics" crap again. You're not speaking for what "the public" wants, you're speaking for what you want. Nobody was talking about popularity contest here.

[Sodam Yat]

Only in the comics, that just us fans are aware of. Not on a mainstream level to the point of where both the character and the brand became a laughing stock. You're right that DC should do better by John, but WB should do better by Hal.

Yea, that's what I meant. Most of my rants are DC's treatment towards John, rather than WB. I agree about how WB treats Hal though.

[Johnny]

I've heard the theory that because Cyborg is half machine he doesn't come across as a fully developed, archetypal African American male superhero. I heard the argument about Spawn. Yes. Al Simmons is a black man, but what you see as Spawn in no way reflects the reality of "blackness," John Stewart, on the other hand, possesses all the making of a complete self-actualized black superhero.

I've never seen Cyborg that way but I do agree with the complaints that he should have more flesh than half of a face.

[kurenai24]

This is something I've also noticed. It's not as common in comics, but it does pop up more often in other forms of media. There's nothing bad with having a family, but as you said, usually the character doesn't get to interact with others outside of their workplace or whatever.

Yes, in general outside of race, adult characters with kids don't have a life outside of their families and work, and if the show skews younger the only token winds up either being an adult who can't hang with the crew of young somethings or they are a young something token with kids, which also falls into the black people having kids when they are young/teens stereotype.

Okay fair enough. But this hasn't really happened with Bumblebee and with Silencer, it's too early to tell.

I never stated it did happen, since I was speaking on the trope in general I was using them as examples, and they are a part of that trope no matter if the outcome hasn't happened yet.

Besides it's not like we'll be able to tell with Bumblebee, she's an after thought in the Titans book anyway.

[leo619]

Wow, didn't expect to see this thread, but yeah it's pretty much common knowledge to those that look for and promote diversity that DC's continue to lag behind Marvel.
As for the reason why? I'd say it's 75% the audience and 25% the company. The company has definitely been known to make some blunders. (The stereotypical role of Wally West before the major correction needed for example.) Marvel found the best possible way to succeed is with legacy characters. While with DC, DC has had possibilities of doing legacy characters and doesn't capitalize on it. Captain Marvel is a perfect example, the largest demographic of kids in an orphanage are black boys. It would have been perfect for Captain Marvel to have been a black child, especially if they had decided to give the rock the role of shazam. A perfect opportunity wasted.

Val Zod was another character with TONS of potential and was easily DC's miles morales if given the proper push. Instead, he's off in Limbo.

So DC definitely makes some blunders for sure. But definitely the biggest issue the audience. DC, especially with Rebirth, decided to primarily focus on classic readership. As indicated by before the new 52, many in classic readership doesn't care about minority books. And when Rebirth shed the new readers from it's books with the Rebirth era, the new readership left, and this is seen in the sales as well. As both Cyborg and Blue Beetle were selling better in the new 52 era then in the rebirth era. The current readership only cares about the classic characters, hence why Rebirth has very high highs and very low lows while the new 52 has a more distributed readership.
Marvel currently has that, not very high highs, but a lot of stable middle grounds so more books can exist.

So Marvel will continue to have the advantage in terms of minority books, as they have done a much better job capturing new readers who are more interested in diversity
than DC.

[C_haos]

DC ain't exactly loaded with Lakota or Cheyenne superheroes. Apache Chief is a joke. Manitou Raven is supposed to be from the Obsidian age of Atlantis? A progenitor of the Apache tribe? Totally bullshit. Manitou spirits are associated with First Nation people of northern southern Canada ,and some Midwestern tribes in US. Not the south west. That's an entirely different culture.

Dawstar from the Legion of Superheros and the guys from Batmen Inc come to mind, but that maybe it which is unfortunate.

The Young Justice version of Apache Chief, Tye LongShadow may the best version of the character as far as powerset and personality. Honestly, I wish DC would just follow their animated side when it comes to diversity and inclusion because they get it for the most part and their track record shows it.

[mace11]

DC's issue they want the greatest films made instead of just making films that ANYONE can watch-which is what many view the Marvel films as. Nothing great but good enough to entertain for a few hours.

Most of the mcu films have been rated great or higher by the audience however.
Even some of the non-mcu films like some of the early spiderman ones,most the x-men films etc.
Some of the dc films have been rated great or higher too.
The dceu films so far rated great etc.. is wonder woman.