Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[skyvolt2000]

The whole reason why DC decided to concentrate on the classic heroes with Rebirth was that most their new heros (completely independent of minority or not) didn't sell, and they needed to get the sales back up. And the new ones they kept around after rebirth are mostly minority characters.

Then Cyborg has no business with a book after he got his behind handed to him by Moon Girl.

Carol Danvers can't sell but she still get SHOT after SHOT.

And if you create a trainwreck with a POC let alone anyone's book-don't expect it to sell. Especially when fans OPENLY tell you it's the creative team not the lead of the book that is the issue. Look at Black Panther-once you got past issue 12-you saw more drops than increase because no one wants to pay for a stealth Storm book and the writer is pandering to those who like weak black male leads.

Or you got stores that refuse to sell the book like Cyborg has suffered from.

We can't use the sales up excuse when we see every POC lead book aside from GL constantly dropping.

Your top selling POC in Amazon superhero trades is New Superman and he's in the 1400s. And guess whose trade that will not be out until May 2018 is gaining in preorders on amazon? DUKE THOMAS. Batman & The Signal has already surpassed Cyborg & Blue Beetle's books.

Folks are not asking for much-they just want to see EFFORT. IF everyone says they do diversity right-PROVE it.

[skyvolt2000]

Which was iirc the only episode where had a bigger role.

Thats would be quite a big change from the originals imo, who are imo really boring (and are on top of this from an era that is the Titans equivalent of Wonder Woman's "Mod phase"). That why I'm really surprised that there are people who think that they have potential.

The right writer could have a field day with Malcolm Duncan.

Priest, Hickman, Flynn (at Archie), Alex Simmons (Archie), Ewing and Redjack-would have a field day. It might not last more than 6 issues but you will enjoy whatever it is.

Heck do the Equalizer or Nikita with him.

[Sodam Yat]

And guess whose trade that will not be out until May 2018 is gaining in preorders on amazon? DUKE THOMAS. Batman & The Signal has already surpassed Cyborg & Blue Beetle's books.

Is that really true? And people say Duke Thomas is a failure from the start LOL.

[Assam]

Is that really true? And people say Duke Thomas is a failure from the start LOL.

You do realize that the reason its selling well is because it's SNYDER on BATMAN, right? If it was just the new writer and Duke, I guarantee you it would not be doing half as well. (And this isn't a matter of Duke vs. anyone else. It's a matter of BATMAN and SNYDER.)

[Sodam Yat]

You do realize that the reason its selling well is because it's SNYDER on BATMAN, right? If it was just the new writer and Duke, I guarantee you it would not be doing half as well. (And this isn't a matter of Duke vs. anyone else. It's a matter of BATMAN and SNYDER.)

People from other sites saying it won't do well regardless of Snyder's involvement. On how Duke is such a horrible character to the point that Snyder and Batman's name wont save the character. There's been a lot of harsh comments towards the character. I'm sure you're aware of that

[AcesX1X]

I proudly stand corrected about Vykin debuting before John Stewart. Thanks for the enlightenment.

It looks like Mal debuted almost a year before Vykin, based on the cover dates.

You are absolutely right: Vykin should be getting a whole lot of love as a Kirby creation.

Kirby was so progressive, imo.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-f...am/4000-11255/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/green...n-/4000-11824/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/teen-...ar/4000-10746/

yes, mal made his debut in 1970 while vykin had 1971. but remember that mal did not become guardian until 1976.

i would love love a forever people resurgence with vykin at the forefront. if mike allred can make some rando new god like forager into a great mini series with high critical praise (bug!), then someone can surely take vykin and give him a solo shot.

he's like a good-natured magneto who's also a god from new genesis. or a modern day cosmic boy with ties to the fourth world.

the story practically writes itself ..

[leo619]

The New 52 was losing readers long before Rebirth and had way more lows than Rebirth. Cyborg and Blue Beetle didn't sell that much better and in Vyborg's case look how long before he got a solo book. To say nothing of how many minorities got erased in the New 52.

Oh definitely, but Rebirth is losing readers as well. That's the nature of comic books. Most series start out high and than lose readers over time. As stated before, the only difference now is that low's on rebirth are the lowest but the high's for rebirth are the highest. With New 52, you had more series that were on the lower end. But they weren't as low of sells as the rebirth, it had more books in the middle. Cyborg and Blue Beetle were in the mid-low range but they were in a much better position than where they are at now.
But as mentioned before, DC isn't faultless in this endeavor. That's why I put around 25% of the blame on the company as the bonehead mistakes they did make during new52 was face palm worthy. (Such as static shock and mr.terrific).

Race bending charcters (if they aren't totally obscure) never really worked. And in case of the new 52 Captain Marvel, I din't see how he would have been less stereotypical than the new Wally.

Actually we don't have too many examples of "race bending characters" to state if they would work or not, primarily in comics. (Television is a different matter and there they are definitely a success on many cases.) So we really don't know how well a race bended billy watson would be. With that said, the character didn't have to be billy watson at all. It could be a similar character but some different shifts. And it depends upon which background they would use, the new 52 captain marvel he was definitely a douche so it literally would be wally 2.0. But if they would have gone with orphan kid who tried his hardest to be the best, or more like the classic origin, than it definitely would be a lot different than wally. Or if they wrote him like they do Wally now and Not wally introduction because Wally now is a 10x better character than before.

The whole reason why DC decided to concentrate on the classic heroes with Rebirth was that most their new heros (completely independent of minority or not) didn't sell, and they needed to get the sales back up. And the new ones they kept around after rebirth are mostly minority characters.

Oh I agree, though as I mentioned before, what really happened is the highs are high and the lows are really lows, I know that DC were looking more for those really high sales. I never said otherwise. But this essentially proves my point on how the fault lies mostly on the audience. If the audience was more like Marvel, you would have more successful minority books. Instead, most of DC audience only care about Superman, Batman, Hal and Wonder Woman.

[Aahz]

Oh I agree, though as I mentioned before, what really happened is the highs are high and the lows are really lows, I know that DC were looking more for those really high sales. I never said otherwise. But this essentially proves my point on how the fault lies mostly on the audience. If the audience was more like Marvel, you would have more successful minority books. Instead, most of DC audience only care about Superman, Batman, Hal and Wonder Woman.

Is the Marvel Audience really better? I mean in most cases the minority books sell because they put these charters in an already successful brand. And if DC does that, the DCs fans seem also to buy the titles (see Green Lantern).

The only differences are that DC doesn't really have any popular classic black Characters, who are their own franchise, like Black Panther and that DC realized that retire and replace any of their big sellers is not a good idea if you want to earn money.

[leo619]

Is the Marvel Audience really better? I mean in most cases the minority books sell because they put these charters in an already successful brand. And if DC does that, the DCs fans seem also to buy the titles (see Green Lantern).

The only differences are that DC doesn't really have any popular classic black Characters, who are their own franchise, like Black Panther and that DC realized that retire and replace any of their big sellers is not a good idea if you want to earn money.

Eh not technically the same. The Green Lantern Corps is meant to have any character represent the role, they are more of a cops by design and as such aren't the same as legacy characters. The Green Lanterns would be more akin to the Nova Corps than say a Batman or Superman, which usually represents one character. This is combined by the fact that Green Lanterns already have a history of rotating individuals from time to time, from Hal, to John, to Guy, to Kyle. So adding Jessica and Baz doesn't really change the "classic" dynamics of the Green Lantern corps. So essentially, it's "allowed" for the Green Lantern corps in many of DC fanbase eyes because it's always been that way.

On the other hand, placing minority books into already successful brands have been a relatively new case. And that's where you notice the difference. The biggest difference you see? The easiest, Val Zod and Miles Morales. There's no doubt that Miles received (and continues to receive) backlash from readers against diversity, but when the book was release, it was a successful hit, and has transition easily Marvel's biggest new character this decade. Not only that, he issued the new era we're currently at with Marvel releasing the most successful minority solos in the history of the organization. Let me repeat that, Marvel is now putting out more successful minority properties than any other time in the history of their publishing. The only era that compared to marver's current output, is probably milestone. DC's Val Zod? Started out strong with sells but he was in a team book, never transitioned into his own solo, was placed in one of the worst events in DC's history (i.e Worlds End) and then gave up the cowel temporarily, came back just in time for the series to be cancelled. And what was the major complaint for Earth 2? It wasn't the JSA. That's the difference between Marvel's and DC audience, so yes, Marvel's Audience is definitely better when it comes to supporting minority books, and DC's audience is the biggest part to blame because they won't support minority characters to an already successful brand unless that brand has a history of featuring minority characters, and they don't support neither classic heroes nor new heroes.

So I truly do believe if DC's audience was better, we would have more minority books on DC side. So yes, DC is primarily focused on making money, but once again that illustrates my point on how the fault mostly lies with the audience.

[Black Angel]

Marvel just knows how to take risks and commit to it despite fan backlash. I mean the last risk DC took was the new 52 made superman date wonder woman and made wally west black. What happened they buckled and took it all back. Marvel they aren't afraid to put their more established characters outside their troupes i mean thor lost his hammer and title, so did cap heck even iron man is expanding his legacy and so.
DC is afraid to make those risk and stick with them.

[married guy]

I can't believe Cyborg is still being published.
I don't mind Vic, but I have ZERO interest in reading a solo book, and would rather see him in the Titans instead of the JLA.
I haven't read this series of Blue Beetle after not enjoying the New 52 rebooted version.
But even Jaime's original series sold in mediocre numbers and it was a great book!
As did Jason's time as Firestorm.

[Agent Z]

Eh not technically the same. The Green Lantern Corps is meant to have any character represent the role, they are more of a cops by design and as such aren't the same as legacy characters. The Green Lanterns would be more akin to the Nova Corps than say a Batman or Superman, which usually represents one character. This is combined by the fact that Green Lanterns already have a history of rotating individuals from time to time, from Hal, to John, to Guy, to Kyle. So adding Jessica and Baz doesn't really change the "classic" dynamics of the Green Lantern corps. So essentially, it's "allowed" for the Green Lantern corps in many of DC fanbase eyes because it's always been that way.

On the other hand, placing minority books into already successful brands have been a relatively new case. And that's where you notice the difference. The biggest difference you see? The easiest, Val Zod and Miles Morales. There's no doubt that Miles received (and continues to receive) backlash from readers against diversity, but when the book was release, it was a successful hit, and has transition easily Marvel's biggest new character this decade. Not only that, he issued the new era we're currently at with Marvel releasing the most successful minority solos in the history of the organization. Let me repeat that, Marvel is now putting out more successful minority properties than any other time in the history of their publishing. The only era that compared to marver's current output, is probably milestone. DC's Val Zod? Started out strong with sells but he was in a team book, never transitioned into his own solo, was placed in one of the worst events in DC's history (i.e Worlds End) and then gave up the cowel temporarily, came back just in time for the series to be cancelled. And what was the major complaint for Earth 2? It wasn't the JSA. That's the difference between Marvel's and DC audience, so yes, Marvel's Audience is definitely better when it comes to supporting minority books, and DC's audience is the biggest part to blame because they won't support minority characters to an already successful brand unless that brand has a history of featuring minority characters, and they don't support neither classic heroes nor new heroes.

So I truly do believe if DC's audience was better, we would have more minority books on DC side. So yes, DC is primarily focused on making money, but once again that illustrates my point on how the fault mostly lies with DC.

Cass Cain and Static's original books sold well so it isn't just the audience. Damian sold well during DCYou. As skyvolt said, people have no obligation to support badly find minority books. Yeah there are people who hate minority books just for existing but that exists in every fandom. The difference is that Marvel simply chooses to try again while DC gets the lesson that no one wants to read about non white characters.

[ed2962]

Cass Cain and Static's original books sold well so it isn't just the audience. Damian sold well during DCYou. As skyvolt said, people have no obligation to support badly find minority books. Yeah there are people who hate minority books just for existing but that exists in every fandom. The difference is that Marvel simply chooses to try again while DC gets the lesson that no one wants to read about non white characters.

Well, seeing as DC still will publishes minority led books and they are about to launch more, I'd say they happily have not gotten that lesson.

[Anthony Shaw]

Which was iirc the only episode where had a bigger role.

Thats would be quite a big change from the originals imo, who are imo really boring (and are on top of this from an era that is the Titans equivalent of Wonder Woman's "Mod phase"). That why I'm really surprised that there are people who think that they have potential.

No worries, DC seems to agree with you.

[Anthony Shaw]

The right writer could have a field day with Malcolm Duncan.

Priest, Hickman, Flynn (at Archie), Alex Simmons (Archie), Ewing and Redjack-would have a field day. It might not last more than 6 issues but you will enjoy whatever it is.

Heck do the Equalizer or Nikita with him.

The character is almost a blank slate. A writer can go anywhere with him.