A damn good Story Pitch for the Spider-Man Story I never knew I needed.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

Wow, I do not want to read any of that.

I mean every aspect fails to work.

And Mephisto's magic deal is broken by the sheer force of their Hallmark-movie-Christmas-miracle love? Ugh.

And then everything else in his life falls into place, why? Because he's a good guy and deserves it or some fairy-tale nonsense.

Fanfic nonsense.

All Spider-Man nowadays is fanfic, except the daily comic. Officially licensed fanfic, but fanfic nonetheless. The only way for it to not be fanfic is to have Stan Lee writing it.

Personally, I'm more in the camp to have the deal retconned into being a villain's actions instead of Peter's, and part of the deal was to make it look like it was Peter's fault. I know, I know, it would open up plot holes, but I'd still prefer it. Not likely, I know, but it would be more in character for Norman than Peter.

[WebLurker]

FYI everybody: for clarification purposes, I was referring to the use of classic cast members and a compromise solution between Peter the bum or Peter the billionaire, not the guy's OMD reversal formula. His formal Super Hero School for the X-Men titles idea was also pretty great though.

Still not my wheelhouse.

All Spider-Man nowadays is fanfic, except the daily comic. Officially licensed fanfic, but fanfic nonetheless. The only way for it to not be fanfic is to have Stan Lee writing it.

No, since it's produced by the people who own the license, it can't be fanfiction.

Personally, I'm more in the camp to have the deal retconned into being a villain's actions instead of Peter's, and part of the deal was to make it look like it was Peter's fault. I know, I know, it would open up plot holes, but I'd still prefer it. Not likely, I know, but it would be more in character for Norman than Peter.

Hmm.

[Muffin Crud]

I think a more natural and potentially very rich interesting route to take is Mockingbird and Spider-Man's deepening relationship eventually lead to a confrontation with Mephisto. He "killed" Bobbi, stole Peter's marriage, there's tons to explore there

[SilverWarriorWolf]

No, since it's produced by the people who own the license, it can't be fanfiction.

As I said, officially licensed. Marvel owns the license, but entities like Marvel don't make stories, the people in them do. Fanfics are stories written by someone who didn't make the characters and settings. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko made Spider-Man, making them the original creators. Dan Slott, JMS, Brian Bendis and the like are writing fanfic because they are writing stories for characters they didn't create.

I'm not ragging on the these writers, as I am a fanfic writer myself. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

[boots]

It's kinda funny to have a deep voiced guy reading dialogue for Mary Jane.

that's a deep voice?

[boots]

Wow, I do not want to read any of that.

I mean every aspect fails to work.

And Mephisto's magic deal is broken by the sheer force of their Hallmark-movie-Christmas-miracle love? Ugh.

And then everything else in his life falls into place, why? Because he's a good guy and deserves it or some fairy-tale nonsense.

Fanfic nonsense.

pretty much how i felt, though i do get the whedon-esque moment with mephisto's big badness confused by mj's sudden change of mind.

but all in all, the whole thing doesn't work as a story, even if we take it out of the spider-man/omd context

[boots]

As I said, officially licensed. Marvel owns the license, but entities like Marvel don't make stories, the people in them do. Fanfics are stories written by someone who didn't make the characters and settings. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko made Spider-Man, making them the original creators. Dan Slott, JMS, Brian Bendis and the like are writing fanfic because they are writing stories for characters they didn't create.

I'm not ragging on the these writers, as I am a fanfic writer myself. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

except "fanfic" has a clearly defined definition and franchise writers are not part of that.

but if you wanna call a fork a spade, that's all g

[SilverWarriorWolf]

except "fanfic" has a clearly defined definition and franchise writers are not part of that.

but if you wanna call a fork a spade, that's all g

Give me the source of that clearly defined definition. If you can, and it's legitimate, I will concede the point. If you are the source, however, then my definition is just as valid.

[boots]

Give me the source of that clearly defined definition. If you can, and it's legitimate, I will concede the point. If you are the source, however, then my definition is just as valid.

merriam's dictionary:
Definition of fan fiction
:stories involving popular fictional characters that are written by fans and often posted on the Internet — called also fanfic\-ˈfik\


i think that's possibly too narrow but whatevs.

as someone who has written for a copyrighted character that was only licensed to the company i worked for, i can assure you it wasn't fan fiction. i got paid

[SilverWarriorWolf]

merriam's dictionary:
Definition of fan fiction
:stories involving popular fictional characters that are written by fans and often posted on the Internet — called also fanfic\-ˈfik\


i think that's possibly too narrow but whatevs.

as someone who has written for a copyrighted character that was only licensed to the company i worked for, i can assure you it wasn't fan fiction. i got paid

Where does that explication exclude licensed works? All it says is that there are popular fictional characters, written by people who are fans, and often (not always, often), posted to the internet. That still would include licensed writers who are fans of the work.

Once again, if the only criteria excluding licensed writers is your own personal opinion, it's just as valid as mine, and in my opinion, being licensed and paid doesn't make it any less fanfic. Peter Jackson was paid to make the Hobbit movies, and those stank of fanfic more than anything I can think of.

[Tuck]

Oh, for the love of Paul Rudd. Clearly I am referencing the amateurish craft, wish-fulfillment, and general indulgence found in the unsolicited fanfiction you run into online . . . as opposed to the generally professionally crafted stories written by vetted professionals.

The logomachy is irrelevant.

[boots]

Where does that explication exclude licensed works? All it says is that there are popular fictional characters, written by people who are fans, and often (not always, often), posted to the internet. That still would include licensed writers who are fans of the work.

Once again, if the only criteria excluding licensed writers is your own personal opinion, it's just as valid as mine, and in my opinion, being licensed and paid doesn't make it any less fanfic. Peter Jackson was paid to make the Hobbit movies, and those stank of fanfic more than anything I can think of.

ok, no worries. since you're the person offering a redefinition of a term widely accepted, the onus of proof lies with you. if you supply a credible source that makes a case for professional writers being no different to a fanfic writer then i'll keep an open mind.

by your definition, it seems that unless the writer is the originator of the concept, s/he can always be defined as a fanfic writer.

i mean..what if stan was a fan of his own work? that would make him a professional writer and a fanfic writer simultaneously, right?

[boots]

The logomachy is irrelevant.

yeah, but it's kinda fascinating.

only on a message board can this happen.

[WebLurker]

Where does that explication exclude licensed works? All it says is that there are popular fictional characters, written by people who are fans, and often (not always, often), posted to the internet. That still would include licensed writers who are fans of the work.

"Fanfiction" refers exclusively to stories or projects that are not authorized by the license holder of the property in question. If a fan, of say Star Trek, got an official gig writing for the franchise, either as a scriptwriter for a TV show or a novelist, it wouldn't be fanfiction, since it's being written under the purview of CBS or Paramount.

You're mixing up the word "fan." The "fan" in fanfiction doesn't refer to the author's opinions on the franchise that the fiction is based on, but the fact that an amateur playing with intellectual property they don't have the rights to.

Once again, if the only criteria excluding licensed writers is your own personal opinion, it's just as valid as mine, and in my opinion, being licensed and paid doesn't make it any less fanfic. Peter Jackson was paid to make the Hobbit movies, and those stank of fanfic more than anything I can think of.

You're mixing up the term again. Here, you're using "facfic" as an analogy, saying that a movie feels like such a story (usually suggesting that it's not well-written). A metaphor is not literal fact. The quality of Jackson's movies (or lack thereof) has no bearing on their status as non-fanfiction, and them being created by companies that made a deal for the rights for the film adaptations disqualifies them from being fanfiction.

[Miles To Go]

Oh, for the love of Paul Rudd. Clearly I am referencing the amateurish craft, wish-fulfillment, and general indulgence found in the unsolicited fanfiction you run into online . .

And I'm saying there's no difference between that and most of the crud in the market nowadays.