A damn good Story Pitch for the Spider-Man Story I never knew I needed.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

by your definition, it seems that unless the writer is the originator of the concept, s/he can always be defined as a fanfic writer.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

I'm just going to let this drop. Clearly, we've reached an impass where no one's going to be willing to cross. I'm not saying my definition is the only one, just that it's a valid interpretation, especially since it's the simplest interpretation. You are free to hold whatever definition. I'm under no illusion that everyone is always going to agree with me, especially on the internet.

As for proof, I'll give you exactly the same definition you gave me. We already went over it, and it doesn't prove yours or exclude mine, so I guess we're just not going to agree.

My annoyance more lies in the assumption of "fanfic = bad" and "original/licensed = good." Keep in mind, Disney has been making fanfics of the Brothers Grimm and other legends since day one, and Stephanie Mayers Twilight was wholly original and paid for.

And I'm saying there's no difference between that and most of the crud in the market nowadays.

Thank you.

[Vworp Vworp]

...so I find it a bit revealing that the pitch is about a major story reversal without talking about what comes next.

Isn't that basically OMD?

Moreso, in fact. OMD was by it's very definition a story reversal. That's quite literally the only reason it existed. So anything that undoes it isn't a reversal - it's a restoration. It's fixing something that, even within the very continuity of ASM itself, was/is broken.

[nx74205]

Oh god...just hire this guy..please ...just hire this guy marvel

[Tuck]

And I'm saying there's no difference between that and most of the crud in the market nowadays.

Even bad professional stories are based in understanding of storytelling fundamentals.

Although the super weird prevalence in television and movies of things like "between you and I" is making me question the basic competency of English-language writers.

[boots]

Exactly, that's what I'm saying

and if the new author isn't a fan of the previous work or hasn't even read it? is that an un-fanfic?

I'm just going to let this drop. Clearly, we've reached an impass where no one's going to be willing to cross. I'm not saying my definition is the only one, just that it's a valid interpretation, especially since it's the simplest interpretation. You are free to hold whatever definition. I'm under no illusion that everyone is always going to agree with me, especially on the internet.

sure, i have no problem with personal interpretations. someone can call a car the broom-broom or a plane a sky iphone. all good with me.

My annoyance more lies in the assumption of "fanfic = bad" and "original/licensed = good." Keep in mind, Disney has been making fanfics of the Brothers Grimm and other legends since day one, and Stephanie Mayers Twilight was wholly original and paid for.

i suppose that would mean every retelling of classic myth from oral histories hence was a fan fic: beowulf, king arthur, the bible etc. even though the term only came into existence in the 20th century.

and i'm sure there is great fan fiction as surely as there is poor professional fiction, but it's not as simple as writer vs writer. when working in a professional environment, you work as part of a team (with the benefit of an editor) and that in itself makes the two forms quite distinct.

the purposes and audiences are broadly distinct too- professional work is (usually) designed to reach mass and mainstream audiences, and fan fic (usually) caters to fan desires which tend to be inward looking comfort food and wish fulfillment. it's why shipping, smut and self-insert is so popular in that medium.

Thank you.

you do realise his point plays into your "annoyance"? he's essentially saying bad professional work = fanfic

[boots]

Although the super weird prevalence in television and movies of things like "between you and I" is making me question the basic competency of English-language writers.

if you mean dialogue, sometimes (often) it's written to reflect how language is either used or understood in current society

[Tuck]

if you mean dialogue, sometimes (often) it's written to reflect how language is either used or understood in current society

The only people I hear talk like that are in movies and television.

And it's regardless of the character's background.

It's super weird.

[Mister Mets]

As I said, officially licensed. Marvel owns the license, but entities like Marvel don't make stories, the people in them do. Fanfics are stories written by someone who didn't make the characters and settings. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko made Spider-Man, making them the original creators. Dan Slott, JMS, Brian Bendis and the like are writing fanfic because they are writing stories for characters they didn't create.

I'm not ragging on the these writers, as I am a fanfic writer myself. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

That's a unique way of looking at it, but not quite the way it's generally seen.

Work for hire is not considered fanfic, even if the writer is a fan of the series.

* Edit- I see that this has been addressed by others.

that's a deep voice?

Probably not, but it's not quite feminine either, making for an odd mismatch.

Isn't that basically OMD?

Moreso, in fact. OMD was by it's very definition a story reversal. That's quite literally the only reason it existed. So anything that undoes it isn't a reversal - it's a restoration. It's fixing something that, even within the very continuity of ASM itself, was/is broken.

I don't mind that the pitch had a reversal. The problem is that the guy didn't say what he planned to do with the restoration.

With One More Day/ Brand New Day, the pitches addressed story reasons for Peter to be single. This wasn't mentioned all the time in the leadup, but that's mainly because that would have required spoilers.

[ijacksparrow]

I don't mind that the pitch had a reversal. The problem is that the guy didn't say what he planned to do with the restoration.

With One More Day/ Brand New Day, the pitches addressed story reasons for Peter to be single. This wasn't mentioned all the time in the leadup, but that's mainly because that would have required spoilers.

The spider-marriage was boring as hell. If you look at the Superman boards, you will find several people complaining that Superman's marriage to Lois is also boring, with the one saving grace being Jon Kent, and I agree with that sentiment. The marriage has been gone for ten years. I can't wait until the next five years or so when that is nothing but a blip on most people's radar. If the marriage was that popular Renew Your Vows sales wouldn't be sinking - and it's not like that book wasn't well written, Conway was doing great things with that book. The fact is that people don't care about the spider-marriage as much as the shippers here and elsewhere want people to think.

[Vworp Vworp]

With One More Day/ Brand New Day, the pitches addressed story reasons for Peter to be single. This wasn't mentioned all the time in the leadup, but that's mainly because that would have required spoilers.

They weren't pitches, they were justification. Or at least JQ's personal reasoning for the huge retcon. If there had been a pitch for post-OMD spidey, I imagine it would be the same as any pitch for this suggested idea after the main story concludes...

"...And then Spidey has some adventures."

The only difference being in one pitch, he's married and the other he isn't. But it's not like there was any specific direction to speak of after OMD. Peter's status quo changed but the fundamental nature of ASM's stories were still much the same as they'd always been.

[Mister Mets]

They weren't pitches, they were justification. Or at least JQ's personal reasoning for the huge retcon. If there had been a pitch for post-OMD spidey, I imagine it would be the same as any pitch for this suggested idea after the main story concludes...

"...And then Spidey has some adventures."

The only difference being in one pitch, he's married and the other he isn't. But it's not like there was any specific direction to speak of after OMD. Peter's status quo changed but the fundamental nature of ASM's stories were still much the same as they'd always been.

We have to make a distinction between communications with comics pros and communications with fans.

A pitch is generally a communication with pros. It's what a writer does if he or she has an idea has for a character. Or it may be something an editor puts in writing to explain a vision about characters to new staff.

There are all sorts of efforts to promote a book to fans, but these rarely involve pitches. We may sometimes see pitches as extras, although that's usually preaching to the converted in that it's something shown to fans who are already predisposed to like that thing.

Pitches will often cover stuff that isn't meant for communication with fans, such as where a story's going.

Brevoort did have a five page manifesto for the books leading into Brand New Day that was collected in the Swing Shift Director's Cut. He makes several comments about where they would go with the series, and with Peter being single.

[WebLurker]

The spider-marriage was boring as hell. If you look at the Superman boards, you will find several people complaining that Superman's marriage to Lois is also boring, with the one saving grace being Jon Kent, and I agree with that sentiment. The marriage has been gone for ten years. I can't wait until the next five years or so when that is nothing but a blip on most people's radar. If the marriage was that popular Renew Your Vows sales wouldn't be sinking - and it's not like that book wasn't well written, Conway was doing great things with that book. The fact is that people don't care about the spider-marriage as much as the shippers here and elsewhere want people to think.

Given that the controversy hasn't gone away in ten years, what makes you think that it'll be gone in another five?

[ijacksparrow]

Given that the controversy hasn't gone away in ten years, what makes you think that it'll be gone in another five?

The fact this isn't my first rodeo with soft/hard reboots. We have a whole new generation of comic book readers that NEVER had a married Spider-Man at this point. The new MCU films are heavily well received and don't even have Mary Jane in it. I'm actually more curious to when Michelle will pop up in Marvel Comics - and I actually think I have a pretty good idea who Michelle is and isn't related to MJ at all, but that's another story - than whatever my fellow old school Spider-Fans think it might happen with Mary Jane and Peter. It was almost ten years ago, and it will keep going until most of the old school readers aren't even reading anymore. It happened after Crisis, it happened after Zero Hour, it happened after Peter was brough back after the awful Clone Saga. It will happen again. They are committed with Peter Parker bachelor status, and I'm very much okay with that, since some of my favorite Spider-Man stories came out after OMD.

[Cmbmool]

This was the emphasis on Amazing pitch for a great long term Spider-man storyline arc and one that would truly test the ideal of Marvel Legacy and closing up unresolved storyline plots. Truly someone get this guy a job.

[Cmbmool]

We have to make a distinction between communications with comics pros and communications with fans.

A pitch is generally a communication with pros. It's what a writer does if he or she has an idea has for a character. Or it may be something an editor puts in writing to explain a vision about characters to new staff.

There are all sorts of efforts to promote a book to fans, but these rarely involve pitches. We may sometimes see pitches as extras, although that's usually preaching to the converted in that it's something shown to fans who are already predisposed to like that thing.

Pitches will often cover stuff that isn't meant for communication with fans, such as where a story's going.

Brevoort did have a five page manifesto for the books leading into Brand New Day that was collected in the Swing Shift Director's Cut. He makes several comments about where they would go with the series, and with Peter being single.

Quick Question: Were any of Brevoort's ideas even reach in BND ?