A damn good Story Pitch for the Spider-Man Story I never knew I needed.

[boots]

The only people I hear talk like that are in movies and television.

And it's regardless of the character's background.

It's super weird.

maybe it's more a localised thing? plenty of people around these parts do, or even "worse"

[boots]

We have to make a distinction between communications with comics pros and communications with fans.

A pitch is generally a communication with pros. It's what a writer does if he or she has an idea has for a character. Or it may be something an editor puts in writing to explain a vision about characters to new staff.

There are all sorts of efforts to promote a book to fans, but these rarely involve pitches. We may sometimes see pitches as extras, although that's usually preaching to the converted in that it's something shown to fans who are already predisposed to like that thing.

Pitches will often cover stuff that isn't meant for communication with fans, such as where a story's going.

Brevoort did have a five page manifesto for the books leading into Brand New Day that was collected in the Swing Shift Director's Cut. He makes several comments about where they would go with the series, and with Peter being single.

yeah, most pitches i've seen or "pitched" are heavily detailed, with longer term plans weaved in (even if the pitch itself focuses on the opening story or arc). at the very least, a script needs to be attached.

it's not that this couldn't be a verbal presentation type pitch to some exec, it's just that it would be extremely thin and undercooked. as it is, it's a fun exploration of one fan's plot idea.

but, it appears to have scratched the itch for some like minded fans

[WebLurker]

The fact this isn't my first rodeo with soft/hard reboots. We have a whole new generation of comic book readers that NEVER had a married Spider-Man at this point. The new MCU films are heavily well received and don't even have Mary Jane in it. I'm actually more curious to when Michelle will pop up in Marvel Comics - and I actually think I have a pretty good idea who Michelle is and isn't related to MJ at all, but that's another story - than whatever my fellow old school Spider-Fans think it might happen with Mary Jane and Peter. It was almost ten years ago, and it will keep going until most of the old school readers aren't even reading anymore. It happened after Crisis, it happened after Zero Hour, it happened after Peter was brough back after the awful Clone Saga. It will happen again. They are committed with Peter Parker bachelor status, and I'm very much okay with that, since some of my favorite Spider-Man stories came out after OMD.

However, the original Raimi movies are still floating around (that's what made me pick my side). USM (one of the most anti-OMD comics ever created) is still a common recommendation as a "first-time comic," as far as I can tell. RYV is a thing (maybe it's not doing as hot as mainline ASM -- but it is an AU series, so that is normal). Heck, the idea that Mary Jane is Spider-Man's significant other is basically Spidey 101 now (I have observed more instances where the average joe has never heard of Gwen Stacy but knows who Mary Jane is). And as far as the MCU goes, the biggest clickbait for the movie was the question of if Zendaya was playing MJ or not.

The fact that the RYV series would suggest that Marvel thought there was a market for it.

I've also seen some rodeos like this. A lot of the counterculture "undo the retcons" movements loose their steam pretty quickly. Right now, the various "Bring Back Legends" groups in the Star Wars franchise have slowed down considerably. You can take it to the bank that they will fail in their objectives. In the case of Spider-Man, that hasn't really happened yet. It's still a thing and generating new comics material. Now, who can say what the future holds and all that (certainly the idea that older fanbase segments decrease as new ones increase). However, I think MJ's role in the franchise is too engrained. It'd be a bit like trying to reset Rogue and Black Widow as villains; that's not what the characters are anymore, or what people know them as. So, yeah, I think this'll still be an ongoing debate five years down the road, at least.

(And, FIY, I'm one of the new generation you're talking about. Never got into comics until a couple years ago.)

[The Negative Zone]

The spider-marriage was boring as hell. If you look at the Superman boards, you will find several people complaining that Superman's marriage to Lois is also boring, with the one saving grace being Jon Kent, and I agree with that sentiment. The marriage has been gone for ten years. I can't wait until the next five years or so when that is nothing but a blip on most people's radar. If the marriage was that popular Renew Your Vows sales wouldn't be sinking - and it's not like that book wasn't well written, Conway was doing great things with that book. The fact is that people don't care about the spider-marriage as much as the shippers here and elsewhere want people to think.

I kind of agree, I feel as if the marriage is overhyped.

The sad part about the marriage is that it will never be permanent. Maybe one day Marvel will reverse OMD, but it won't be long till they get rid of the marriage. Then we'd be in the same boat as we are right now.

[Miles To Go]

I'm a regular on the Superman boards and fans do NOT complain that much about Superman's marriage to Lois. The only ones that do are the same three to four people who want him with Wonder Woman.

As for Renew Your Vows, for an alternate reality book with minimal publicity, it's doing fine, and doing better than anything Spider-Gwen has managed in the last several months despite the fact Marvel overhype and aggressively market her everywhere else. If we go by sales logic, more people care about the Spider-Marriage than they ever will about Spider-Gwen.

Not to mention there are many people at comic cons, children included, cosplaying as Spidey, Spinnerett, and Annie...indicating that, yes, there's a whole generation, young and old, who are STILL growing up with a married Spider-Man and who greatly value it.

To say nothing of the twenty years worth of back issues depicting the ups and downs of the marriage.

The marriage also remains intact in the newspaper strip, meaning Peter and MJ have enjoyed thirty years together as opposed to just "officially" twenty

You think people won't be talking about the marriage in "five years", well let's see...

Gwen died well over 40 years ago...people still talk about that and demands for her return have led to way too many Clone stories.

Norman Osborn hasn't known Peter's identity for nine years...people still talk about that and demand he regain his knowledge.

Eddie Brock hadn't been Venom for over eleven or twelve years...and people never stopped talking about him getting the symbiote back..and sure enough, he eventually did.

And turning the subject matter briefly over to the X-Men...the older Jean Grey is coming back after a fourteen-year absence. In those fourteen years, nobody kept their gob shut about their desire to see her return...even when a time displaced younger version was plugging that gap for a few of them.

In five years people will still be talking about the marriage the same way people still talk and demand a restoration of all these things.

The sad part about the marriage is that it will never be permanent.

Funny, because the last ten years of it continuing to exist in some form shows otherwise.

Maybe one day Marvel will reverse OMD, but it won't be long till they get rid of the marriage. Then we'd be in the same boat as we are right now.

Divorcing the characters is something Marvel won't do, that's the whole reason OMD was devised in the first place and why it concludes the way it does...with an artificial "illusion of change" method of separation and a grand obstacle to potentially overcome in case they have to restore it.

[Tuck]

maybe it's more a localised thing? plenty of people around these parts do, or even "worse"

That's disheartening.

I try not to do the grammar police thing, but that one irks me because it's people "correcting" away from the more natural-sounding 'me' . . . which is also correct.

It's even more jarring when adding other pronouns: "between her and I".

I think it's because we're told in school not to say, "me and my friend did ______."

[The Negative Zone]

Funny, because the last ten years of it continuing to exist in some form shows otherwise.

In some form is different than being canon in the main comics.

[Miles To Go]

In some form is different than being canon in the main comics.

The main comics has been following a divergent timeline in it's own right since 2007. There is no "real" canon anymore.

[WeirdSpider]

If the marriage was that popular Renew Your Vows sales wouldn't be sinking - and it's not like that book wasn't well written, Conway was doing great things with that book. The fact is that people don't care about the spider-marriage as much as the shippers here and elsewhere want people to think.

Again Renew Your Vows is an alternate universe comic, and they almost never sell as well as main canon comics. You can't use an alternate universe book to make a statement about how popular the marriage is or isn't with the fandom. I also know that there are marriage fans who don't like RYV either due to Mary Jane being a superhero, or don't like the idea of the spider family stuff.

[boots]

The main comics has been following a divergent timeline in it's own right since 2007. There is no "real" canon anymore.

that's...an entirely personal pov. as far as canon goes, ASM is it, despite personal tastes. almost all long standing titles have had timeline adjustments. you may as well say canon hasn't existed across the board since the 40s (or some other arbitrary decade)

[boots]

That's disheartening.

I try not to do the grammar police thing, but that one irks me because it's people "correcting" away from the more natural-sounding 'me' . . . which is also correct.

It's even more jarring when adding other pronouns: "between her and I".

I think it's because we're told in school not to say, "me and my friend did ______."

well, it was pretty amusing in young guns

i agree it's one of those over-corrections that has gotten out of hand, but it still absolutely makes sense in the right context. i was always taught the way to find it was by removing the "you" (i'm sure you know this but just for giggles)

i should see spider-man homecoming
me should see spider-man homecoming

"you and i should see spider-man homecoming"

vs

marvel blames me for bad sales
marvel blames i for bad sales

"marvel blames you and me for bad sales"


of course almost nobody actually talks as formally as either of those examples but i'm just working off the top of my head

[TooFlyToFail]

Wow, I do not want to read any of that.

I mean every aspect fails to work.

And Mephisto's magic deal is broken by the sheer force of their Hallmark-movie-Christmas-miracle love? Ugh.

And then everything else in his life falls into place, why? Because he's a good guy and deserves it or some fairy-tale nonsense.

Fanfic nonsense.

Exactly how I felt. Everything sounded pretty good, for the most part, until he got to PeterxMJ That whole pitch was bad fanfiction times 1000. The Vows book already exists, so we don't need to force MJ into the main Peter book.

[Miles To Go]

Exactly how I felt. Everything sounded pretty good, for the most part, until he got to PeterxMJ That whole pitch was bad fanfiction times 1000. The Vows book already exists, so we don't need to force MJ into the main Peter book.

You mean there's no need to force a likable Peter and MJ into the main "Peter" book

[Mister Mets]

Quick Question: Were any of Brevoort's ideas even reach in BND ?

Sure. Some of it was more about tone than specific story beats. They did certainly introduce a lot of new villains in the first seven months of Brand New Day.

[Dangerous]

Holy shock, Prof Thorgi's Spider-Man proposal is GENIUS!
Why can't he write Spider-Man dammit?!

Urrggghhhhhh so lame we won't get something like that.
Why don't Marvel understand,.... it would sell like crazy?

Haven't they ever heard the saying 'the customer is always right'?