A damn good Story Pitch for the Spider-Man Story I never knew I needed.

[WebLurker]

Holy shock, Prof Thorgi's Spider-Man proposal is GENIUS!
Why can't he write Spider-Man dammit?!

Urrggghhhhhh so lame we won't get something like that.
Why don't Marvel understand,.... it would sell like crazy?

Haven't they ever heard the saying 'the customer is always right'?

I think Marvel is more interested in the paying customer than the non-paying one.

[Dangerous]

I think Marvel is more interested in the paying customer than the non-paying one.

You do understand ASM is selling the lowest in it's entire history right now, right?

[Rincewind]

You do understand ASM is selling the lowest in it's entire history right now, right?

You do understand that the entire industry has changed and the current sales estimates only cover the direct market and do not cover any of the other markets that didn't exist in previous decades like digital, trades from bookstores, and other venues, right?

[Inversed]

People saying "Why doesn't someone else write Spider-Man so they can bring back the marriage" keep on forgetting that Slott has said numerous times that the reason the marriage isn't back is not because he refuses to write it, it's because Marvel doesn't want that to happen. He's made it clear he'd be very happy to write it when the time comes, but now's not that time. So instead, he decides to use this opportunity to write and new and different things with the character.

To me at least, I feel the ideas overall worked. "What would Peter Parker do if he was in charge of a billion-dollar corporation?" is an interesting one. So is "What if the world hated Peter Parker but loved Spider-Man?" Not to mention, pairing together Spider-Man and Mockingbird works because it's different, and unlike alot of other superhero pairings, this was actually developed and built up over this run.

He's not perfect, I think while he's great at telling stores and coming up with ideas, and the characterization in most of those can be very excellent, his biggest flaw to me personally is that he'll tend to put the story and ideas over the characters, and sometimes they come off out of character just to serve the narrative. It is disappointing whenever it happens, because I do feel he's succeeded more than he's faulted. Even in something like The Clone Conspiracy, which was probably his most recent weakest arc, has some truly great moments and ideas within.

It's because of this that I'll stick with Slott for as long as he wants to write, because at the very least he's trying to do stuff new, and I don't feel he should be blamed for something he's not allowed to do.

You do understand ASM is selling the lowest in it's entire history right now, right?

It's also still one of Marvel's consistently highest selling books, not to mention thanks to how much the whole industry has changed in the past few years, all comic books have been at their lowest. Also the only Spider-book that comes close to matching ASM is Venom.

[WebLurker]

You do understand ASM is selling the lowest in it's entire history right now, right?

I find those claims very hard to verify (and easily subject to confirmation bias, regardless of what position you take). Besides, at the end of the day, as long as Marvel is satisfied with how the sales are going, they have no motivation to return to an iteration that they have judged to be against what they believe the character should be about. (I totally disagree with them here, esp. since, IMHO, the current run is as anti-Spider-Man as I've seen and heard, but my opinion isn't exactly relevant with the Powers That Be.)

People saying "Why doesn't someone else write Spider-Man so they can bring back the marriage" keep on forgetting that Slott has said numerous times that the reason the marriage isn't back is not because he refuses to write it, it's because Marvel doesn't want that to happen. He's made it clear he'd be very happy to write it when the time comes, but now's not that time. So instead, he decides to use this opportunity to write and new and different things with the character...It's because of this that I'll stick with Slott for as long as he wants to write, because at the very least he's trying to do stuff new, and I don't feel he should be blamed for something he's not allowed to do.

I don't think he has a good handle on the character, personally, but I do agree that he's not the one to blame for the whole OMD thing. I don't find him especially kind to the pro-marriage position (if that makes any sense, for lack of better wording), but the fact that it's not longer in play was not his call.

[Inversed]

I don't think he has a good handle on the character, personally, but I do agree that he's not the one to blame for the whole OMD thing. I don't find him especially kind to the pro-marriage position (if that makes any sense, for lack of better wording), but the fact that it's not longer in play was not his call.

I would say, if he were to pick a side, he would be "pro-marriage" based on what he's said in the past, and the fact that he campaigned hard for Renew Your Vows to be a thing. I just see him as being realistic, since he knows that the marriage can never come back, why keep trying to tease people on something he knows can't happen. That said, like he has also mentioned in the past, making them a couple again or having them remember the events of OMD are all fair game, it's just all up to when he and Marvel feel is the right time.

So until that time is right, he might as well try and continue with new ideas. Though it is perfectly fair and understandable if you don't like his characterization of him.

[WebLurker]

I would say, if he were to pick a side, he would be "pro-marriage" based on what he's said in the past, and the fact that he campaigned hard for Renew Your Vows to be a thing. I just see him as being realistic, since he knows that the marriage can never come back, why keep trying to tease people on something he knows can't happen. That said, like he has also mentioned in the past, making them a couple again or having them remember the events of OMD are all fair game, it's just all up to when he and Marvel feel is the right time.

So until that time is right, he might as well try and continue with new ideas. Though it is perfectly fair and understandable if you don't like his characterization of him.

Good points. Still don't like his take, though.

[Tuck]

Haven't they ever heard the saying 'the customer is always right'?

"The customer is always right" is a customer service philosophy that you should never make a customer feel like s/he is wrong. It's about being diplomatic when someone tries to return pants to a hardware store.

[WebLurker]

"The customer is always right" is a customer service philosophy that you should never make a customer feel like s/he is wrong. It's about being diplomatic when someone tries to return pants to a hardware store.

Not to mention that some customers like current Spider-Man (or whatever other change there is that has its controversies).

[Dangerous]

To everyone saying 'the industry has changed' sorry, but this is BS.

ASM sells under 50k per issue, Batman sells 100k (What Spidey should be selling).
Digital sales count for jack ****.

Marvel tanked their sales by replacing 70% of the big name characters (MCU heros) with inferior replacements, and by the constant stream of identity politics (think the X-Men Gold debacle) this stuff leaves a really bad perception of the company to non-hardcore readers. Then what classic characters did remain they radically altered (Cap) & people are sick of Dan Slott's Spider-Man now, generally speaking. Marvel Legacy is an attempt to give the fans what they want, but it seems half assed so far. The biggest statement they could make would be to bring the marriage back, and I bet this would create a massive sale boost (esp if they got a new writer too).

[Rincewind]

Digital sales count for jack ****.

Why do digital sales not count? Does Marvel not get money in the sales? Do the buyers not read the comic?

[Alan2099]

Arguing sales numbers never leads to anything because everyone always has their "yeah, but that doesn't count" points and their "this was going on at the time so naturally things were effected" arguments.

It's never more than people trying to say their opinions are better because they have vaguely related math.

[WebLurker]

To everyone saying 'the industry has changed' sorry, but this is BS.

ASM sells under 50k per issue, Batman sells 100k (What Spidey should be selling).

Doesn't Batman also get a lot more exposure? (Both characters do have more than one series to their name, which would add up, as well).

Digital sales count for jack ****.

How do we know that? Also, it doesn't make sense on paper; at the end of the day, any digital sales (as well as trades) of the material go generate revenue for Marvel, so they do make a difference with the bottom line.

Marvel tanked their sales by replacing 70% of the big name characters (MCU heros) with inferior replacements, and by the constant stream of identity politics (think the X-Men Gold debacle) this stuff leaves a really bad perception of the company to non-hardcore readers.

That's a lot of assumptions, there. Specifically, that readers care about the comics reflecting the movies, that the replacements are indeed inferior, and that there are heavy "identity politics" in them. All I can say is that I'm a non-hardcore reader and, while I'd prefer more traditional characters being around, since I don't read most of them in the first place and legacy characters are a time-honored tradition, I don't see the problem, much less the point about complaining about books I don't read.

I've heard it both ways on the "identity politics" thing; some people claiming it's there across the board, with others saying that it's an exaggeration, at best. Given that I've read a few things that people have claimed fit the bill but don't really, the former really comes across as being hypersensitive to the point that the identity politics claim is meaningless, it explains everything, and so explains nothing.

As far as replacement goes, all I can say is that the only reason I'm reading a Wolverine comic today is because they turned that into a legacy character and I'm quitting when that gets canceled so the original can be the one and only again...and I'm one of those people who generally prefers the originals.

So, I don't think that the readers are monolithic in their tastes. Case in point, RiRi Williams is a favorite punching bag for people unhappy with Marvel, but most readers seem to like or love the character, while there are a few like me who aren't interested in reading those comics but see no problem with the changeup.

Then what classic characters did remain they radically altered (Cap) & people are sick of Dan Slott's Spider-Man now, generally speaking. Marvel Legacy is an attempt to give the fans what they want, but it seems half assed so far. The biggest statement they could make would be to bring the marriage back, and I bet this would create a massive sale boost (esp if they got a new writer too).

Maybe, maybe not. I'd love it if the OMD thing was totally reversed, but, at the end of the day, we can't prove any of this. We can only speculate.

Arguing sales numbers never leads to anything because everyone always has their "yeah, but that doesn't count" points and their "this was going on at the time so naturally things were effected" arguments.

It's never more than people trying to say their opinions are better because they have vaguely related math.

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[Bor]

To everyone saying 'the industry has changed' sorry, but this is BS.

ASM sells under 50k per issue, Batman sells 100k (What Spidey should be selling).
Digital sales count for jack ****.

Marvel tanked their sales by replacing 70% of the big name characters (MCU heros) with inferior replacements, and by the constant stream of identity politics (think the X-Men Gold debacle) this stuff leaves a really bad perception of the company to non-hardcore readers. Then what classic characters did remain they radically altered (Cap) & people are sick of Dan Slott's Spider-Man now, generally speaking. Marvel Legacy is an attempt to give the fans what they want, but it seems half assed so far. The biggest statement they could make would be to bring the marriage back, and I bet this would create a massive sale boost (esp if they got a new writer too).

Right because just bringing back the marrige would suddenly make sales rise a lot. Right.....
Because you know who cares about other factors such as creative teams, there already being a marrige title and the fans that has already gone and not coming back. But you know who actually cares about how things actually are instead of how real life is or the fact that the 70% numbers is so silly to begin with.

[boots]

To everyone saying 'the industry has changed' sorry, but this is BS.

ASM sells under 50k per issue, Batman sells 100k (What Spidey should be selling).
Digital sales count for jack ****.

Marvel tanked their sales by replacing 70% of the big name characters (MCU heros) with inferior replacements, and by the constant stream of identity politics (think the X-Men Gold debacle) this stuff leaves a really bad perception of the company to non-hardcore readers. Then what classic characters did remain they radically altered (Cap) & people are sick of Dan Slott's Spider-Man now, generally speaking. Marvel Legacy is an attempt to give the fans what they want, but it seems half assed so far. The biggest statement they could make would be to bring the marriage back, and I bet this would create a massive sale boost (esp if they got a new writer too).

there's a lot of...odd...assertions here. can you further explain how and why digital sales have no impact? and perhaps pass that info on to anyone who sells digital versions of movies, tv shows and ebooks?

also, market share is more important than units shipped. that's how iphone remained dominant in the cell phone market despite selling less phones than its competitors.

i have no idea what the market share is for spidey vs batman, but there's more to market success than simply numbers sold. don't believe me, ask anyone in any form of corporate sales or marketing.