OMD and Amazing 800

[Orbus]

Not from where I'm standing.

If we take everything from the most formative years of the characters as "the basics" then the marriage isn't part of that equation.

When people argue they want "back to basics" what they usually mean is back to a previous status quo, usually the one they grew up with which is perfectly fine however most of the time when creators attempt to take that character closer to a previous status quo it never seems to work.

Renew Your Vows is supposed to be a throwback to the married years of Spider-Man and portray the road not taken by Marvel re: the marriage. I feel Slott's original mini series captured this well however the ongoing series does not really feel like the married years and I don't think anyone back in the day thought that Peter and MJ and an offspring would end up fighting crime as the Spider-Incredibles. It's much farther from back to basic Spider-Man than anything that Slott has done. Obviously we know why Conway has gone this route since the idea of MJ as a costumed hero herself has gained some popularity and it's an easy way to keep MJ (and Annie May) active rather than stuck at home waiting for Peter to return which is something a lot of writers struggled with in the original depiction of the marriage but we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's anything but a unique and very different take on the marriage rather than capturing what fans liked about the marriage the first time.

Likewise Spectacular Spider-Man was supposed to be a book that followed more traditional Spidey stories and yet so far with it's broad comedy and abundance of guest appearances and cameos of other Marvel characters and a story revolving around Peter's surrogate sister it doesn't capture the feel of the pre-Parker Industries Spider-Man. Again I would argue that this seems even farther removed from traditional Spider-Man than anything that Slott has done.

Well, I was thinking about Dan Slott's run in general and I haven't been exactly following new developments that closely. Things do cycle. However, I'm sure comic series where Peter Parker is a household name due to being a failed Steve Jobs is how I would define "back to normal."

Peter Parker should really already a well known name in the media. He went on a book tour promoting Webs and If we're being strict you can't really escape the fact that he was married to a internationally famous super model and actress. Of course writers don't have to be strict about this stuff and have played down just how famous was during the ill fated Byrne/Mackie days just as I'm sure future writers even Slott himself will inevitably play down how much of a house hold name Peter is.

If Slott doesn't want Peter/MJ to reconcile romantically, he should just say that. It's when Slott tries to rationalize it that he looks bad.

The one thing to understand about Slott is that he's a company man. If Marvel today reversed their position on the Spider marriage Slott would gladly write a married Peter Parker - heck he did write a married Peter Parker in the original Renew Your Vows series and fans didn't get a sense he was against the coupling in that story. He would also say whatever it took to promote his married Spider-Man stories.

But Marvel's stance is that they (currently) do not want a married Peter Parker and so Slott will write an unmarried Spider-Man and say whatever he feels best to promote his stories. It's as simple as that.

[Miles To Go]

OMD is NEVER coming BACK ...and that's a quote from Dan slot himself!

Dan ''I don't work with Ben Reilly goop'' Slott

[Aruran.]

If Slott doesn't want Peter/MJ to reconcile romantically, he should just say that. It's when Slott tries to rationalize it that he looks bad. Trying to say "it's about doing something new" as we wait for the next Spider-Man vs. Green Goblin story sounds really dumb.

The funny thing is, I'm fully expecting that 800 is gonna be a Norman Osborn story more than anything else.

[tv horror]

Is Dan Slott married himself?

[TheCape]

Peter Parker should really already a well known name in the media. He went on a book tour promoting Webs and If we're being strict you can't really escape the fact that he was married to a internationally famous super model and actress.

Mary Jane wasn't that famous as a supermodel, at least before OMD, hell is very difficult for models to keep thenselves relevants for long period of times, they usually are very easily forgotten and i don't remenber MJ being in anything bigger that a TV drama called "Secret Hospital" and some B series movie.

[Inversed]

The funny thing is, I'm fully expecting that 800 is gonna be a Norman Osborn story more than anything else.

Don't forget, Doc Ock's gonna be involved somehow. He was the focus of both 600 and 700, not to mention, this IS #800. Because hah eight.

[Frontier]

Don't forget, Doc Ock's gonna be involved somehow. He was the focus of both 600 and 700, not to mention, this IS #800. Because hah eight.

If anyone's not expecting Ock to come back for the umpteenth time in #800, I have to wonder what run they've been reading .

[Gnarlly]

If anyone's not expecting Ock to come back for the umpteenth time in #800, I have to wonder what run they've been reading .

I expect it and welcome it. As much as I like Spidey, ever since Superior I've been more interested in the Doc Ock plots/subplots in ASM than anything Peter has been involved in (including PI, globe-trotting, Clone Conspiracy, and Norman Osborne). Even Slott's best new supporting character, Anna Maria, is directly tied to Ock. Until Slott gives up his Ock fixation (which I have enjoyed for the most part) I can get more of my traditional ASM fix (including classic supporting cast) through RYV.

Edit: And regarding Bobbi, all of these romances since BND have seemed forced to me. Maybe its because OMD and MJ are still in the back of my head when I see the writers try to push a new romantic figure into Peter's life; it just never works for me. The only one that seemed natural to me has been the Superior Spidey/Anna Maria relationship, which of course was not Peter.

[Orbus]

Mary Jane wasn't that famous as a supermodel, at least before OMD, hell is very difficult for models to keep thenselves relevants for long period of times, they usually are very easily forgotten and i don't remenber MJ being in anything bigger that a TV drama called "Secret Hospital" and some B series movie.

The Byrne/Mackie run definitely had MJ as a famous model mobbed by paparazzi, big ad campaigns. Heck one of the few moments I liked from that run is Human Torch and Spidey hanging out in the Baxter Building and Johnny openly saying how hot Mary Jane Watson was and Spider-Man stopping him before his talk turned salacious.

Even during the JMS run (at least the first half) I'd argue she's supposed to be a big deal. When Peter and May visited her on the set of the movie she was working on it seemed like a big budget affair so we can assume she was a reasonably big name in the industry.

I'm not sure it's that realistic that someone of that level of fame is easily forgotten. We don't see the likes of Naomi Campbell or Claudia Schiffer pop up all that often in media but we remember who they are. Of course in the malleable world of the Marvel Universe you can very easily portray the general public as that forgetful and that extends to Peter Parker being a media figure too. That's why I could never understand the meltdowns over Parker Industries, when the story is over there's no problem with Peter going back to his regular status quo. Years from now if Parker Industries is brought up in Spider-Man comics at all it will be like when they reference Webs. "Parker? Name sounds familiar...hey aren't you the guy that published that book of Spider-Man photos" will be "...aren't you the guy who came up with Webware?"

[Aruran.]

If anyone's not expecting Ock to come back for the umpteenth time in #800, I have to wonder what run they've been reading .

Considering that Otto was the vilian in both #600 and #700, it would just be nice for a change.

[WebLurker]

If we take everything from the most formative years of the characters as "the basics" then the marriage isn't part of that equation.

When people argue they want "back to basics" what they usually mean is back to a previous status quo, usually the one they grew up with which is perfectly fine...

Well, I myself got into the franchise through the original movies and the USM comics, so for me, it feels very much like the basics and an element for the "formative years." So, yeah, I do see your point.

...however most of the time when creators attempt to take that character closer to a previous status quo it never seems to work.

Why do you think that is? I mean, on paper, it would seem that a good writer could make just about anything work (assuming that the readers are willing to give the premise a chance in the first place).

Renew Your Vows is supposed to be a throwback to the married years of Spider-Man and portray the road not taken by Marvel re: the marriage. I feel Slott's original mini series captured this well however the ongoing series does not really feel like the married years and I don't think anyone back in the day thought that Peter and MJ and an offspring would end up fighting crime as the Spider-Incredibles. It's much farther from back to basic Spider-Man than anything that Slott has done. Obviously we know why Conway has gone this route since the idea of MJ as a costumed hero herself has gained some popularity and it's an easy way to keep MJ (and Annie May) active rather than stuck at home waiting for Peter to return which is something a lot of writers struggled with in the original depiction of the marriage but we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's anything but a unique and very different take on the marriage rather than capturing what fans liked about the marriage the first time.

Wasn't part of the idea of RYV to rewind back to before OMD and then advance the story in a different direction? I guess I never saw it as trying to recreate the original marriage era but use that part of the franchise put the character in a new place and open up new stories (albeit ones built on a fan-favorite era of the franchise). Personally, I like the new direction they went, at least in regards to the idea of Spider-Man becoming a father.

As far as whether the series is farther from the basics than Slott's work, I think that depends on what one thinks is basic about the character. I know some readers have thought that the Parker Industries thing was a logical continuation. Me personally, I don't agree. I found RYV's setting Spider-Man as someone raising a family on an lower average income closer to what the character is about. Mileage always varies.

Likewise Spectacular Spider-Man was supposed to be a book that followed more traditional Spidey stories and yet so far with it's broad comedy and abundance of guest appearances and cameos of other Marvel characters and a story revolving around Peter's surrogate sister it doesn't capture the feel of the pre-Parker Industries Spider-Man. Again I would argue that this seems even farther removed from traditional Spider-Man than anything that Slott has done.

I haven't read that series, so I couldn't say one way or the other.

Peter Parker should really already a well known name in the media. He went on a book tour promoting Webs and If we're being strict you can't really escape the fact that he was married to a internationally famous super model and actress. Of course writers don't have to be strict about this stuff and have played down just how famous was during the ill fated Byrne/Mackie days just as I'm sure future writers even Slott himself will inevitably play down how much of a house hold name Peter is.

Was MJ that famous? I've heard it both ways (either really famous or someone only those who followed the industry would know about). I'm not that familiar with the 616 AMS comics, so I can't say for sure (although I have started collecting the ASM Epic Collection trades, so I guess I'll be able to in the near-future).

I suppose it is a given that Peter's fame will be phased out or ignored as time goes on, if nothing else to get "back to basics" again. What's that about Byrne and Mackie?

[TheCape]

The Byrne/Mackie run definitely had MJ as a famous model mobbed by paparazzi, big ad campaigns. Heck one of the few moments I liked from that run is Human Torch and Spidey hanging out in the Baxter Building and Johnny openly saying how hot Mary Jane Watson was and Spider-Man stopping him before his talk turned salacious.

I usually ignore everything from that era, because the writting was atrocious, 9 times out 10 and was another attemp from Marvel to get rid of the marriage, so i would keep doing it. Not mentioning that the change of direction was really sudden because before that MJ was studying psicology.

As for JMS run, she was in a movie called "The Lobster Man" and failed to get anything bigger than that.

As for Parker Industries, i just think that Peter wouldn't pursue that kind of big business and nothing interesting was done with it.

[nx74205]

I agree with the general consensus that the Bobbi/Peter pairing seems forced. I also disagree that the two have any chemistry and just seem like another impromptu pairing from on high. The two just start working together due to Peter's liasons with Shield, theres nothing particuarly organic about that forced pairing.

Outside of Gwen Stacy, and its an arguable point there as well, the only love interest that has the history to compete with MJ at this point was Felecia, the Black Cat, and lo and behold Slott messed that up to.

While you're at it, when Jean returns, please have her burn the Inhumans to a crisp and end that farce too.

You sir, are my hero

[Malachi]

I'm not sure it's that realistic that someone of that level of fame is easily forgotten. We don't see the likes of Naomi Campbell or Claudia Schiffer pop up all that often in media but we remember who they are. "

There's a good documentary on how the concept supermodel was created and how big the concept got back then, late 80's to early 90's is where it was the biggest if my memory serves me right. Not strange that MJ became a supermodel too so Marvel could cash in on the popularity. So if you view it through that perspective then yes MJ would probably be a well known name for some age groupes and would probably appear on top model and such to still be known to a younger audience. The word supermodel has continously been used since then and spawned some well known names and some less. Kate Moss certainly comes to mind when thinking about those known to the general audience. Cara Delevilgne appearently was one before she became an actress. I became aware of it only because a newspaper kept reffering to her as a former supermodel who now is an actress. Cara and MJ would probably be the best comparision since Peter can't age that much and MJ therefore is cursed in the same manner. MJ can't have been modeling the 15 years Giselle Bundchen did to really cement her name as a well known household name. Cara was probably well known to people, in some circles, before she appeared in movies but being an actress increased her fame imensly. The biggest thing it did was move her out of the circuits she was known in and out to the general public. Something that few models can do, especially now when the music video is all but dead.

[DieHard200904]

OMD is NEVER coming BACK ...and that's a quote from Dan slot himself!

why do people complain on here about RYV's? it mystifies me. you have a title, it's there for you to read,!!!,,,enjoy it!, pissing & moaning that it's not in- continuity make you look 12 years old with the pouting & stomping...

peter and bobbi have such great chemistry !!! I hope they explore it further.. it's about time peter had someone ib his life now that MJ is over bothering Stark still . it'll make for some wild stories!

I actually just liked the fact that the whole thing is out of continuity, not part of some shared universe and major crossover events. I know that they are desperate grabs for money in canon, but still, I just like it when you have something out of continuity that doesn't get dragged along. I would hope that Marvel does more out of continuity things where the wierd ideas that they have for canon don't happen and drag every character into it.