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  1. #1
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    Default Justice League#29 Discussion & Spoilers

    Aka "Age of Arth-pocalypse "

    (I'll see myself out)

    spoilers:
    Right, so after we get Clark's beatdown out of the way, Hunter and the Kids all assemble to pretty much try to kill Diana, believing if they do the darkness won't be allowed to spread. Hunter seems to be looking forward to this the most, which is kind of heart-wrenching. The battle escalates and Hunter asks Cube to teleport them. They arrive in Midway, where the mysterious unknown black pathogen is growing and demanding that it feed...and the black goo soon envelops Diana.

    After dealing with Barry and Jess, Arthur confronts Mera and his daughter, and tells them Sovereign is on her way to urn down everything until she finds everything she has lost

    In the meantime, Lois learns Arthur stole kryptonite from Bruce, and boy is she pissed...alarmed that Bruce is developing weapons that could kill not only her husband, but her son too. She wants to have "the talk" when this is all over.
    end of spoilers

  2. #2
    Incredible Member The Learner's Avatar
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    Damn Bruce, you have got a pissed off Lois Lane to deal with after this battle with Sovereign is over.

  3. #3
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    So I guess Sovereign is Wonder Woman from Venomverse.
    end of spoilers

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If its that simple then the arc has just become a lot less interesting.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  5. #5
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If its that simple then the arc has just become a lot less interesting.
    That has been the guiding principle of Hitch's entire run, unfortunately. He's just not much of a writer, but keeps getting more opportunities because they want him to draw for them.

  6. #6
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    There might be a plot twist where Arthur didn't wanted to harm Lois because he knows that she has to become Sovereign. But it will be just as bad. Who knows, she might be even Mera at this point.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    There might be a plot twist where Arthur didn't wanted to harm Lois because he knows that she has to become Sovereign. But it will be just as bad. Who knows, she might be even Mera at this point.
    I don't get it. It appeared that Arthur was angry with the League because they failed in the future. Is Arthur on the side of Sovereign? I don't understand his motives at all. Was it explained in a previous issue of JL? Can't remember.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    There might be a plot twist where Arthur didn't wanted to harm Lois because he knows that she has to become Sovereign. But it will be just as bad. Who knows, she might be even Mera at this point.
    That's exactly what I was thinking as I read the issue. Before I knew he was on Sovereign's side, I thought it could be played as a bit of irony him saying Lois wasn't to blame for any of this. But knowing he is on Sovereign's side, it also could have been a hint of already established loyalties. Plus after learning about Batman's failsafes, Lois is pretty pissed at Bruce here. And Bruce isn't at all present in the future. Does that anger parlay into murder? Then she ends up using his tech to make her suit (Sovereign's get-up looks like a streamlined version of the Hellbat costume...something Lois has actually worn before).

    Then again, maybe its supposed to be as simple as it looks. Either way though this issue hasn't swayed me into thinking the WW thing isn't a misdirect. The black goo getting a hold of her, the way it was presented, really didn't show me much to make me believe yet that she's actually the villain.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-21-2017 at 12:26 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  9. #9
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    Why is this issue being discussed in the Superman and not the general forum? Don't get it.

    I don't think Sovereign is Diana.
    1. That's the most cliche and previsible option.
    2. I'm reading JL 26 right now and during their fight with Sovereign, Sovereign says to Hunter "and you? As worthless as the day you were first given life. It's no surprise your mother abandoned you". Notice "Your Mother". Granted, Sovereign Diana might not even see her self as Diana any longer, or be possessed. Or just keeping herself secret. But the "your mother" is interesting.

    We got four women here who are possible candidates:
    - Diana
    - Mera
    - Jessica
    - Lois

    3. Sovereign is described as angry and merciless with the few survivors of the big war. Why? Coming back to the candidates:
    - Diana: Angry at humanity? This seems how she's being played in this arc.
    - Mera: Angry at... what? Arthur survived (well, sorta). Dory is alive and Atlantis was too.
    - Jessica: Jessica is not the angry type. She has living children. Why would she get pissed at the world and become evil?
    - Lois: Clark and Jon apparently died in the big fight (or disappeared). Her husband and son dead, Lois might get angry and steal Batman's tech, and then start studying the league's archives, taking their artifacts and tech and adding them to her arsenal, until she becomes that powerful.

    4. The Means:
    Sovereign seems to be either technological or magically-powered. Possibly both. I'm leaning towards tech. Someone above pointed that her suit looks like the Hellbat suit.
    - Diana certainly has the sheer power. Also, ties to Olympus.
    - Mera is quite powerful too, but we have never seen use her own powers, which are quite characteristic.
    - Jessica is just a human female with a oan ring. Could be using another type of tech. What I find interesting is the black ring in Curry's hands, how did Sovereign get him that black ring? That could point to Jessica being Sovereign. Black Ring = Lantern Lore.
    - Lois too is just human. But she's quite smart, and has used the Hellbat suit before.

    Diana's being angry at MANkind would explain why she saw Hunter be born (be made? Like, the clay origin?) and abandoned him at birth.

    Of the four, I can see Diana or Lois being Sovereign. Mera doesn't have much reason, but Aquaman recently had an arc (The Deluge) about a prophecy where Mera could have turned into a world-ending mad queen. Of all the four, I would Mera is the most unstable - Mera has ALWAYS been written as being crazy or prone to insanity. I can see the path for Mera, but not the whys. Jessica would be a total dark horse.

    Diana seems like such a obvious red herring, so I'm going with Lois is Sovereign. Sacred Knight is right!

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    So if that theory is right, then before the end of this year we'll have a story where it turns out Clark's dad is a murderer, then there's that crossover coming up where his kid becomes a mass murderer in the future and this story where his wife is also a mass murderer but in a different future. M'kay.... who's up for an evil krypto arc?
    Last edited by FishyZombie; 09-23-2017 at 08:28 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    So if that theory is right, then before the end of this year we'll have a story where it turns out Clark's dad is a murderer, then there's that crossover coming up where his kid becomes a mass murderer in the future and this story where his wife is also a mass murderer but in a different future. M'kay.... who's up for an evil krypto arc?
    Evil Krypto was behind everything, all along. EVERYTHING. Dr. Manhattan was just a puppet who saw the strings, and there were fluffy dog paws on it. Even Krona was just another patsy, easily accessible with some time travel. The Dog Was the Mastermind.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and even krypto is just a paw for spoilers:
    The cats of the Kryptonian criminals who've been imprisoned in the Phantom Zone.
    Yes, this is actually a thing.
    end of spoilers

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    So easy to be a murderer. Isn't it? I can remember a certain videogame. Can't recall the name. All it takes is one bad day, one destroyed planet, one stolen bone and one becomes a murderer of a most vicious nature.

    I am hoping for a more grey Jor-El then him being outright evil. Read Supergirl yesterday. I am running out of options.


    spoilers:
    Murderous Kryptonian cats! Now that is something i want to read. Christopher Priest shall have one arc with those cats.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 09-23-2017 at 10:12 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post
    Evil Krypto was behind everything, all along. EVERYTHING. Dr. Manhattan was just a puppet who saw the strings, and there were fluffy dog paws on it. Even Krona was just another patsy, easily accessible with some time travel. The Dog Was the Mastermind.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and even krypto is just a paw for spoilers:
    The cats of the Kryptonian criminals who've been imprisoned in the Phantom Zone.
    Yes, this is actually a thing.
    end of spoilers
    LMAO! I had to look up that bit about the cats because I didn't believe you! Jeez no wonder Jor-El turned out to be a prick. What kind of society puts a bunch of adorable kittens into a dimension of eternal suffering?

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Who knows, if the idea is anywhere in the ballpark, maybe use it within the Superman books as another layer just lumped on top of his faithlessness. Villains keep trying to turn his son bad, there's a future out there to deal with where his son DOES turn bad. There's a future where his wife turns bad. His biological father is alive in the present and is bad.

    Its still all overdone to this point, I haven't changed my mind on that, but if that's the case might as well use it all when you're bringing the character to his knees which appears to be where he'll be at mentally pretty soon.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  15. #15
    Spectacular Member Ravyn's Avatar
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    I'm enjoying this story arc quite a bit. It's been lovely watching our heroes take the kids in and try to make them feel welcome after all they've been through. I was worried it was just going to be a slug-fest with the generations beating on each other.

    Diana abandoning her child because he is male - that's a hard pill to swallow. And it was confirmed by the lasso as truth. Perhaps it is not actually true, but only Hunter's perception of events? Maybe this darkness and the disappearance of the Gods has more to do with her absence in her son's life. I hope we get a heart-to-heart conversation between the two of them before all of this is over.

    I have to say, Fernando Pasarin's artwork is just stunning. Even better than Bryan Hitch. I had to double check that it was Pasarin drawing this story.

    He's always been incredibly talented at illustrating backgrounds, but his figure-work used to make my eyes bleed, with his trademark elongated lanky bodies and tiny faces floating in the middle of giant fat heads. With the eyes too close together he just couldn't seem to draw attractive people, or even human-looking people, really.

    But he has a much better grasp of proportion and anatomy now, and he's created some stunning layouts and battle scenes as well. The image of Diana deflecting the deflecting the power blasts from the twins is gorgeous.

    He's a master at body language now as well. The quiet scenes like one with sleepy Barry, Jessica and Nora are so well done. He's become an artist who's work I'm going be actively following from now on.

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