Generations: Ms Marvel and Ms Marvel

[Kintor]

The whole left-wing/right-wing construct is a ridiculously blunt instrument dating back to the early days of the post-Revolutionary French legislative chambers, and doesn't really apply particularly well to any political system in which actual hereditary nobility vs 'commoners' isn't actually a major axis of political beliefs... so today, basically none, even the UK with the House of Lords. That said, to the extent it's useful to label positions and their adherents either 'left' or 'right' at all, a concern with civil rights and diversity on a racial and sexual (and sexual orientation, and ability vs disability, etc.) basis as well as on a socioeconomic class one, is indeed more of a view of the left than of the right. I'd also say that labeling such concerns as 'ahistorical identity politics' is neither accurate (because there's certainly a lot of history to these politics) nor effective in dismissing them as unworthy of consideration as a part of overall left-wing (for lack of a better label) politics.

This about standards, just because Marvel's identity politics wannabes claim they're left wing doesn't actually make it true. Before everything went to hell with this current identity politics debate you might reasonably expect some intellectual underpinning behind an allegedly left wing ideology. I'm talking about literally centuries of intensive evolution of politic thought to arrive at modern left wing political thought. Well, I would say modern except for the fact that once identity politics arrived the left wing simply ceased to exist, drowned out in all the shrill white noise. Marvel's current heavy-handed messaging is all just part of that same tone-dear identity politics, divorced from any historical intellectual tradition; Marvel's talent are frauds for even daring to call themselves left wing.

[JKtheMac]

Well, it's not like none of those other companies have pointed a finger at Marvel's sales or anything. Right?

Sorry? Nobody at DC is saying the problem with our sales plummet (This month down 41% on last August in dollar terms) is because of Marvel.

PS. I misrepresented Image who are actually up slightly year on year which is bucking the overall trend, down 17.9% for the market.

[Rogue Star]

Sorry? Nobody at DC is saying the problem with our sales plummet (This month down 41% on last August in dollars terms) is because of Marvel.

http://community.comicbookresources....from-IDW/page5

oddly enough, IDW's sales have dropped massively in the last year, and according to announcements, they kind of blame the actions of Marvel for the drop off.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/09...ancial-report/

"Increased cyclical downward pressure driven by market leaders, of course, refers to Marvel tanking in sales this year, which has a cascading effect on everyone else. But that wasn’t all. IDW showed a decrease across the board, though it is hoping things will pick up for the rest of the year:"

[Xalfrea]

Well this thread sure tanked quickly.

On the subject of comparing to the rest of the Generations issues, for those who've read everything so far, how would this entry rank compared to the others?

[Rogue Star]

Well this thread sure tanked quickly.

On the subject of comparing to the rest of the Generations issues, for those who've read everything so far, how would this entry rank compared to the others?

Best of the bunch. I'd say the Hawkeye Generations book was second best.

[Prof. Warren]

Sigh. You mean in exactly the same way Image and DC's sales have been dropping in 2017? I didn't realise this book was a commentary on the whole industry, and retail in general!

I know. If Marvel's sales are supposedly tanking and yet they still lead DC by the same margin that they have been, what does that say?

If DC was leading Marvel by the margin that Marvel leads DC and did so across several consecutive months, then you'd have a case that Marvel is "tanking" in a way that is unique to them and doesn't reflect sales trends across the industry.

[url]"Increased cyclical downward pressure driven by market leaders, of course, refers to Marvel tanking in sales this year, which has a cascading effect on everyone else. But that wasn’t all. IDW showed a decrease across the board, though it is hoping things will pick up for the rest of the year:"

This is what happens when you go to BC for your info. You get slanted information, filtered through the writer's bias. IDW's report refers to "market leaders", not Marvel specifically, and is a term that would include other "market leaders" like DC and Image and it supports the observation that the industry overall has experienced a downturn.

Well this thread sure tanked quickly.

On the subject of comparing to the rest of the Generations issues, for those who've read everything so far, how would this entry rank compared to the others?

I'd rank it on the lower end, actually. Not that I didn't enjoy it but the Phoenix, Wolverine, Thor, Hawkeye and Iron Man issues were more to my taste.

[Rogue Star]

...

This is what happens when you go to BC for your info. You get slanted information, filtered through the writer's bias. IDW's report refers to "market leaders", not Marvel specifically, and is a term that would include other "market leaders" like DC and Image and it supports the observation that the industry overall has experienced a downturn.


...

My point in all this was that Marvel is not sitting pretty profit wise, and that the meta aspect of the story reflected the real world situation with this company. Some people don't agree that it's what the content of the book is doing. That's fine. I'm merely proving that my interpretation is valid because it's based on the fact that Marvel is not doing well.

[JKtheMac]

Well this thread sure tanked quickly.

On the subject of comparing to the rest of the Generations issues, for those who've read everything so far, how would this entry rank compared to the others?

Hmm. I was thinking about ranking them at some point, this is somewhere in the middle perhaps. But I have invested in some and only flicked through others, so any ranking of mine would be biased towards the ones I purchased.

[JKtheMac]

My point in all this was that Marvel is not sitting pretty profit wise, and that the meta aspect of the story reflected the real world situation with this company. Some people don't agree that it's what the content of the book is doing. That's fine. I'm merely proving that my interpretation is valid because it's based on the fact that Marvel is not doing well.

Last thing I will say on sales in this thread: we have absolutely no idea what Marvel's profits are. We don't know what their penetration is in the wider market. From a direct market perspective, because of scale and judging by their actions, they are making a lot more profit than anyone else.

[crimsonspider89]

August was just due to events and generations one shots. Not to mention the nonstop overshipping that Marvel does.

That is what is effect IDW and Valiant and Dark Horse. Less shelf space for those books.

Or how the Star Wars buyers 75% of them only buy the Star Wars books and nothing else.

Without as many Marvel buyers who may buy IDW/Dark Horse/Valiant when they buy, means they are losing sales.

[Xalfrea]

I wasn't interested in getting any of the other Generations issues simply because I don't read any of the others, but TBH, this Carol/Kamala issue went over for me so well I'm very curious on what's going on in the other stories. I've seen the other threads, but they only provide so much.

Seriously considering picking up that upcoming Generations hardcover TPB.

[Rogue Star]

Last thing I will say on sales in this thread: we have absolutely no idea what Marvel's profits are. We don't know what their penetration is in the wider market. From a direct market perspective, because of scale and judging by their actions, they are making a lot more profit than anyone else.

It's not a matter of whether they're still making a profit or not, as far as my point is concerned.

[JKtheMac]

I wasn't interested in getting any of the other Generations issues simply because I don't read any of the others, but TBH, this Carol/Kamala issue went over for me so well I'm very curious on what's going on in the other stories. I've seen the other threads, but they only provide so much.

Seriously considering picking up that upcoming Generations hardcover TPB.

In general the stories are a little more on the nose than this. A hero goes "back in time" and meets the person that they are currently holding the legacy of and has a realisation about their own situation in reflecting upon the situation and what they witness. To some extent the reflection goes two ways, but that is tricky to pull off for characters that are not being written right now.

IMO they act like #0 issues. They give you an insight into the themes and situations of the main books, and in many they make the sub-textual themes of the ongoings more overt to help someone that has only heard the negative rhetoric understand what the books are about.

If you want to get a quick overview, and a taster of the main legacy based titles currently being published then I would recommend them, but they are not all equally satisfying as stories. TBH, I haven't read any that I consider bad, but judging by other people's reviews, YMMV.

[JKtheMac]

It's not a matter of whether they're still making a profit or not, as far as my point is concerned.

I thought you were convinced this book was a direct analogy of a crisis in Marvel? You were suggesting that the sales being down at Marvel was analogous with the crisis Carol's magazine was going through. You were drawing a direct line between the dialogue being used to talk about the magazine and Marvel.

All I said was you were overstating the analogy. I didn't say it wasn't there, in fact I agreed it was part of the subtext, but your direct analysis only really holds up if Wilson is suggesting Marvel are in crisis. They are not, Wilson has never suggested such a thing, has defended their strategy and only suggested some of the tactics are not the best. She has cited that some books sell better outside the direct market and that people need to understand that young adult books are growing faster than other books.

[Rogue Star]

I thought you were convinced this book was a direct analogy of a crisis in Marvel? You were suggesting that the sales being down at Marvel was analogous with the crisis Carol's magazine was going through. You were drawing a direct line between the dialogue being used to talk about the magazine and Marvel.

All I said was you were overstating the analogy. I didn't say it wasn't there, in fact I agreed it was part of the subtext, but your direct analysis only really holds up if Wilson is suggesting Marvel are in crisis. They are not, Wilson has never suggested such a thing, has defended their strategy and only suggested some of the tactics are not the best. She has cited that some books sell better outside the direct market and that people need to understand that young adult books are growing faster than other books.

You seem to be implying that a company can't make a profit and still be in a "crisis". Is your definition of a crisis a company hemorrhaging money and making nothing back? Because even if their numbers are measly that's still a profit. My point is that sales tanking in the way they are rumored to have is enough for Marvel to declare a state of emergency. You don't wait till the eviction notice is on the door before you start taking money seriously.