Flash point Superman question

[brettc1]

Hi guys - probably this has been discussed here but I need some info.

After Flashpoint we were introduced to the New 52 Superman, but since then apparently the pre-FP Superman has turned up as a separate character, yes? Along with another Lois Lane and their son.

My confusion is that if there was a pre and post FP Superman, does that mean all the other pre-FP heroes were obliterated and then replaced with their current duplicates? Otherwise how could there be two Supermans?

Or was there some kind of bizarre explanation for this?

Thanks.

[FishyZombie]

My understanding is that N52 Supes (red) and PC Supes (blue) were 2 halves of the same person, ditto with Lois. Not really different individuals, but rather they started as one person, but at some point currently unknown point he was split in 2, Red lived his life thinking he was the only Superman of earth 0, Blue Superman and Blue Lois kept their memories of their preflashpoint lives, and got sent to that convergence world where Lois gave birth, and they ended up back on earth 0. Ten years later they merged back together, in a way that there was only ever one Superman.
We still don't know how or when he and Lois were originally split, we will likely find out in Oz effect or possibly Doomsday Clock. But I suspect that this was an isolated to just L&C. There aren't 2 Batmen or anything. He's still the same character but his life changed with Flashpoint, but I wouldn't say he or anyone were replaced by a duplicates. Flashpoint was a time travel story after all.

[AntoKent17]

My understanding is that N52 Supes (red) and PC Supes (blue) were 2 halves of the same person, ditto with Lois. Not really different individuals, but rather they started as one person, but at some point currently unknown point he was split in 2, Red lived his life thinking he was the only Superman of earth 0, Blue Superman and Blue Lois kept their memories of their preflashpoint lives, and got sent to that convergence world where Lois gave birth, and they ended up back on earth 0. Ten years later they merged back together, in a way that there was only ever one Superman.
We still don't know how or when he and Lois were originally split, we will likely find out in Oz effect or possibly Doomsday Clock. But I suspect that this was an isolated to just L&C. There aren't 2 Batmen or anything. He's still the same character but his life changed with Flashpoint, but I wouldn't say he or anyone were replaced by a duplicates. Flashpoint was a time travel story after all.

He's not the same character, but a totally new one who has lived SOME of the adventures of Post-Crisis Continuity and post-Flashpoint Continuity, BUT IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY.

So, new character.

[Korath]

Originally, New 52 Superman was the sole Superman. It wasn't until D.C. wanted to return to the previous statu quo with this character that they got Pre-FP Superman out of limbo. Thanksfully for this version, they added a kid to his family, which has proven widly popular and therefore the current Superman should be immune to massive retcon/reboot, at least in the near future.

Rebirth is a mess in that regard, because D.C. did not dare "close" the New 52 to use again the previous continuity, and it was especially messy with Wonder Woman and Superman. But New 52 was a reboot, so all the characters were new versions.

[Miles To Go]

I think it's been indictated they were split in two only because Clark, Lois and the infant Jon were "off the grid" trying to avert the original Crisis at the time when the ten years were stolen, so Manhattan/Oz/Whomever had to compensate for the absence of a Superman and Lois in the experiment.

[MajorHoy]

My confusion is that if there was a pre and post FP Superman, does that mean all the other pre-FP heroes were obliterated and then replaced with their current duplicates? Otherwise how could there be two Supermans?

Or was there some kind of bizarre explanation for this?

If you read the 8-issue series Superman: Lois & Clark from 2015-2016



and also read the four-part "Superman: Reborn" storyline from a few months ago



you'd see that the answer to

Or was there some kind of bizarre explanation for this?

is:

"Yes. There was."

[theoneandonly]

its only superman who has the history of being split in two beings. All the rest don't have any history of such shenanigans and are always spared though wally west came close. Now he has transformed from excessive speeding kills me due to x reasons to robin killed me and resurrected me so my heart can go kaput any second if I speed up. He also died due to it much like tony. Why do certain characters get repeating arcs in DC is a mystery which only Manhattan or Geoff can answer. Not that marvel is immune from it. tony is always having health problems, heart trouble nervous system being destroyed etc.

[FishyZombie]

He's not the same character, but a totally new one who has lived SOME of the adventures of Post-Crisis Continuity and post-Flashpoint Continuity, BUT IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY.

So, new character.

we're going into semantics territory, but I'd say they were the same individual, technically. Pre-Crisis Earth 1 Kal-El and Earth 2 Kal-L were completely different individuals. New 52 Superman and PC Superman, on the other hand were the same person, from the same universe. But they were split in half somehow and thanks to Doc M, the universe he was from got it's history changed, one half had memories from before flashpoint, the other from after FP. But they were still the same guy, sorta.

[Soubhagya]

its only superman who has the history of being split in two beings. All the rest don't have any history of such shenanigans and are always spared though wally west came close. Now he has transformed from excessive speeding kills me due to x reasons to robin killed me and resurrected me so my heart can go kaput any second if I speed up. He also died due to it much like tony. Why do certain characters get repeating arcs in DC is a mystery which only Manhattan or Geoff can answer. Not that marvel is immune from it. tony is always having health problems, heart trouble nervous system being destroyed etc.

I can't say about the other characters. But i can make a guess for Superman from the publisher's viewpoint.

It was a compact way to have a Superman with all his history since COIE. The Pre-Flashpoint Superman with his marriage and son as well as the stories of New 52. Superman has a history of being separated into two. So it was pretty clever to get a Superman which would be appealing to both younger and older fans after DC Rebirth.

[Sacred Knight]

we're going into semantics territory, but I'd say they were the same individual, technically. Pre-Crisis Earth 1 Kal-El and Earth 2 Kal-L were completely different individuals. New 52 Superman and PC Superman, on the other hand were the same person, from the same universe. But they were split in half somehow and thanks to Doc M, the universe he was from got it's history changed, one half had memories from before flashpoint, the other from after FP. But they were still the same guy, sorta.

In a sense. But there are enough demonstratable differences to make the argument that Dan Jurgens has made in that this is a new iteration. There are strong enough differences that, in some cases quite drastically, change what those post-Crisis adventures were to the point that when we reinsert them into continuity, there's no way they happened in the same way, just like the New 52 adventures.

Honestly, and I said this in a WW thread where this came up, I think the big meta statement Johns is going to be making when all is said and done is that nothing has been "right" since Crisis. That it never should have happened, was not "true", and that the Rebirth history once its completed will reflect at least in some spirit of what the DCU would have evolved into without that reboot. And in Superman's case, considering his unique reveal of being split in two, its going to be almost as if that there has never been a truly whole Superman since 1985. Again, all metatextual, so its not like the explanation can't be spat upon if some fans don't like it, of course.

[theoneandonly]

In a sense. But there are enough demonstratable differences to make the argument that Dan Jurgens has made in that this is a new iteration. There are strong enough differences that, in some cases quite drastically, change what those post-Crisis adventures were to the point that when we reinsert them into continuity, there's no way they happened in the same way, just like the New 52 adventures.

Honestly, and I said this in a WW thread where this came up, I think the big meta statement Johns is going to be making when all is said and done is that nothing has been "right" since Crisis. That it never should have happened, was not "true", and that the Rebirth history once its completed will reflect at least in some spirit of what the DCU would have evolved into without that reboot. And in Superman's case, considering his unique reveal of being split in two, its going to be almost as if that there has never been a truly whole Superman since 1985. Again, all metatextual, so its not like the explanation can't be spat upon if some fans don't like it, of course.

yes especially since he wrote Infinite Crisis. There may be a narrative element of everything being wrong especially if you take metal into consideration which posits that certain worlds are born to die in the multiverse. So maybe krona could have poisoned the whole creation when he sought to perform his experiment and. the DC verse have never recovered from it and all are subverted versions created from this disastrous act. That would then satisfy camps of supporters of nu and reborn superman and would make an otherwise dumb decision of having two split Superman's having meaning as they symbolise the manipulated perversion caused by high end cosmic entities.

[Adekis]

"Forget it, Jake, it's Hypertime".