Detective Comics #965 preview and discussion (SPOILERS!)

[Aioros22]

Why is the old Robin costume back?

Easter egg hinting the original storyline.

For all intents and purposes Tim should be wearing Jason´s outfit in that flashback. I wonder if they'll give the 52 origin to Future End's Tim.

[TheSeaDragon]

Sure you meant to say fries there mate and also really?

a typo, not big deal. But yeah , is just weird that a Duke fan is so salty about Robin importance, when said character, well one of the several itinerations he has in his three or four years of life, was being a Robin in everything, but with a uglier costume and a dumb codename

[Aioros22]

I like this not so much for the Tim part since I was hoping that Tim;s discovery of the identities would be reworked to involved actual detective work, skills or even brain cells. this was a chance to do something spectacular and update a dated and frankly stupid part of the lore but no we go back to eyes and memory and that show that every single person in Gotham went to see.

No the great thing about this, what I'm loving the fact that they all wanted to impress Grayson. The 1st. The original. That makes me so happy. I love it every time writers acknowledge the greatness and importance of Dick Grayson.

I honestly admit the reason I enjoyed the previous origin was because it showed the impact and importance of Jason which had been usually skimmed through after Alan Grant left. Now we`re back to square one. Good for Tim fans I guess. At least now I have Grayson equally thinking high of Jason when he showed up.

Give and take.

[TheSeaDragon]

It'ts always been a thing though. Batman and Robin. This recent they don't need each other stuff is the actual bullcrap. Robin is a damn sidekick and DC needs to go back to letting him be one. No matter if its Tim or one of the other boys.

THIS and so much this. Dont care about the movies, that is a different thing. But in comics, Robin, any one of them, ad the familiy were always relevant until Snyder took over

[AzraelOnline]

wow, that was a whole lot of preview and flashback. Looking forward to reading this issue. Glad that they're putting Tim's original beginnings of Robin back into play as well.

[Korath]

a typo, not big deal. But yeah , is just weird that a Duke fan is so salty about Robin importance, when said character, well one of the several itinerations he has in his three or four years of life, was being a Robin in everything, but with a uglier costume and a dumb codename

Well, the We Are Robin kids where far more interesting than Tim ever was, or ever will be. And while Duke was "Robin" in Future's End (who status as canon is a little dubious to me), as the apprentice of Batman he was stated from the get go to be something different than Robin, so I don't really see your point.

[Alycat]

I honestly admit the reason I enjoyed the previous origin was because it showed the impact and importance of Jason which had been usually skimmed through after Alan Grant left. Now we`re back to square one. Good for Tim fans I guess. At least now I have Grayson equally thinking high of Jason when he showed up.

Give and take.

I think that was why it was hated too. The wierd 180 from Dick to Jason. We've done a full 360 now. Although does this mean the previous origin is erased or what? His name is actually Tim Drake gain right?

[adrikito]

THIS and so much this. Dont care about the movies, that is a different thing. But in comics, Robin, any one of them, ad the familiy were always relevant until Snyder took over

This Snyder.. You should respect the batfamily.. Not ONLY make them follow YOUR RULES..

For this, you should create your own characters, his own city for them and the rest.. In that case NOBODY could be against this..

[Aioros22]

Grant actually had it both ways. Tim looked up to Dick but saw Jason as a heroic sacrífice and the other example to follow. Everytime he had doubts about being the hero he was, Jason and Dick as Robin would show up ghostlike and give him the peep talk he needed. Other times he would stare at Jason`s case and think about how a hero faces his fears, often by the potential cost of his life.

But that`s Alan Grant. The rest that came after didn`t care with the legacy as much.

I understand it was a 180 but after decades of only looking at one side, it was refreshing to see the other. Now everybody looks up to Dick but Dick in turns admits the "forbidden way" can actually be done right. Like you said, a 360.

[Alycat]

Grant actually had it both ways. Tim looked up to Dick but saw Jason as a heroic sacrífice and the other example to follow. Everytime he had doubts about being the hero he was, Jason and Dick as Robin would show up ghostlike and give him the peep talk he needed. Other times he would stare at Jason`s case and think about how a hero faces his fears, often by the potential cost of his life.

But that`s Alan Grant. The rest that came after didn`t care with the legacy as much.

I understand it was a 180 but after decades of only looking at one side, it was refreshing to see the other. Now everybody looks up to Dick but Dick in turns admits the "forbidden way" can actually be done right. Like you said, a 360.

That was an excellent middle ground. Dick as the OG inspiration, but Tim feeling the weight of Jason's legacy. I think I remmeber one issue where he even got upset at Impulse touching the case.

I think the problem with the Jason change is that Tim's entire backstory and motive felt unearned and hurt more than it helped. Especially since they used it to spring head first in that Red Robin mess and claimed it to be about respect.

[Buried Alien]

A very accurate nearly shot-by-shot, word-by-word re-creation of Tim's origin in A LONELY PLACE OF DYING to frame the story, but some costume nitpicks (which might or might not be important):

1. In the original A LONELY PLACE OF DYING, Tim wore Dick/Jason's original short shorts, yellow-caped Robin costume when he went to rescue Batman and Nightwing from Two-Face. Here, he's wearing...something that more resembles Tim's own proper first Robin costume?

2. And yet later in the flashback, we see the Dick/Jason-styled Robin costume on display in the Batcave. So Dick and Jason wore that suit, but Tim never did...not even during his aforementioned first unofficial adventure as Robin?

3. The previous point is somewhat important because it was a big deal that Bruce gave Tim a new, improved Robin costume and didn't just have him wear Dick/Jason's old suit.

So...do we simply have a mistake in the art here, or is that an intentional change? A mistake is a mistake, and we can just overlook it, but if it's an intentional change, it doesn't quite jibe with other elements of the story.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[millernumber1]

Wow, I leave and so many responses! Hooray!

THANK YOU for this.

Maybe we will see this image(one remake) soon..

Attachment 55158

You know the path to my heart, Adrikito!

Why is the old Robin costume back?

It's not really the old Robin costume - it's a redesign of the old costume by Eddy Barrows to help fit with the retconning of Tim's Lonely Place of Dying origin back into Rebirth continuity.

Thank you for the preview!

Tim’s face is a bit creepy with that smirk though

Barrows does tend to have creepy faces when I don't think he means to.

Yep, I'll sit that one out. Everything wrong with that damned Tim Drake in two pages. I especially hate his "Batman needs a Robin" bullshit. I hope Tim will get his solo, team book or whatever soon and leave 'Tec quickly. I really don't want to drop this title, but I'll do if he returns for long.

...wut...

I love it.

I'm with you. It's a huge part of my love of Batman, his relationship with Robin and the rest of the family.

Grumblings about Tim getting his time as Robin back while Cass and Steph will undoubtedly be stuck with their awful NuOrigins for years to come, I really do like this. The mix of the flashbacks with Tim's storytelling really works.

Oh, also don't like that he's always worn the armor.

Well, I hope Tynion won't forget about those things. Tim's stuff is a massive reality shift from even the first few issues of his run on Tec, so never say never!

I don't mind the batman needs robin thing. It's not true. We know it's not true. it's been proven to be untrue but it's a big part of old Tim and if it makes fans happy then why not.

It's not true? Robin's only about a year younger than Batman in terms of publication history. And how has it been "proven" - this is a fictional universe - whatever the writer is making reality is true. As for making fans happy, that's also a determining factor on what's true or not for the universe, since it indicates fan loyalty and enthusiasm for buying the stories.

I know that it's well loved by most. I can't understand why, however. I guess you have to have read comics with him at the time to like Tim and this terrible line. I honestly find the way Harper helped Batman after Damian's death better written and more intelligent that this stupidity about Batman needing to put another child in danger alongside him to work as a hero.

1) It looks to me like Tim's not a child in this retcon. More like a teen. Is it still dangerous? Yes, but how old is old enough to be Batman's partner?

2) I don't know why "people" love it. I've heard the theories about fan identification and younger audiences and whatnot. The reason I love Robin, and think Batman needs a Robin, is because Batman without Robin (and Alfred and the rest of the family) is just a crazy person seeking vengeance. Batman with Robin is someone who inspires others to fight evil, who starts to reform the family he lost as a child.

It'ts always been a thing though. Batman and Robin. This recent they don't need each other stuff is the actual bullcrap. Robin is a damn sidekick and DC needs to go back to letting him be one. No matter if its Tim or one of the other boys.

100% agree. Batman and Robin are still a catchphrase like peanut butter and jelly.

I honestly admit the reason I enjoyed the previous origin was because it showed the impact and importance of Jason which had been usually skimmed through after Alan Grant left. Now we`re back to square one. Good for Tim fans I guess. At least now I have Grayson equally thinking high of Jason when he showed up.

Give and take.

I don't think Tynion will hate on Jason. I have to admit, I love the retconning of the old origin, but I never really hated the new origin that much. And I did like the Tim and Jason friendship in Batman and Robin Eternal and Red Hood/Arsenal.

Well, the We Are Robin kids where far more interesting than Tim ever was, or ever will be. And while Duke was "Robin" in Future's End (who status as canon is a little dubious to me), as the apprentice of Batman he was stated from the get go to be something different than Robin, so I don't really see your point.

As someone who really liked almost all of the We Are Robin kids a lot, I think this is a very silly statement. None of them have one tenth of the depth or complexity Tim has over his history. You may find their conception more interesting, but that's not the same thing.

I think that was why it was hated too. The wierd 180 from Dick to Jason. We've done a full 360 now. Although does this mean the previous origin is erased or what? His name is actually Tim Drake gain right?

I'm pretty sure that yes, his name is again Timothy Jackson Drake.

This Snyder.. You should respect the batfamily.. Not ONLY make them follow YOUR RULES.. For this, you should create your own characters, his own city for them and the rest..

Haha, Snyderopolis! Or Scottham! With Snyderman and Scott "The Signal" his not-sidekick.

[Buried Alien]

Also, has it ever been previously revealed that Tim's middle name is "Jackson?" I don't think I've ever encountered that before. If he ever had a middle name, I thought it would have been "Jeff" (which apparently was the name that the writers originally had in mind for him, and actually made it into one balloon of the original printing of A LONELY PLACE OF DYING).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lady Nightwing]

Yeesh, a lot of bug eyes and joker like grins in that preview.

I guess Tim's terrible new origin is gone and he didn't take the name Red Robin to honour Jason? So Dick firing him as Robin and taking on Damian is the probably the reason for the name change.

I think NuTim has permanently altered my stance on Tim in general. I used to like this origin but it comes off as incredibly smug and smarmy now.

[TheCape]

I get why people would hate and find cringe the whole "Batman Needs a Robin" of Tim's origin, specially because is Batman putting a young teenager in danger, but frankly, we jumped the shark in that regard when he decided that Dick Grayson (Age: whatever) should put in a costume and fight crime, instead of doing the sensible thing an send him to theraphy (and who knows how many times that boy was close to be killed), so i can break my suspension of disbelief for this one, this one of the reasons of why we shouldn't take Batman (or superheroes) completly serious

Also, historically, the inclusion of Robin has helped Batman sales, not backwards.