Detective Comics #965 preview and discussion (SPOILERS!)

[failo.legendkiller]

Well, the We Are Robin kids where far more interesting than Tim ever was, or ever will be. And while Duke was "Robin" in Future's End (who status as canon is a little dubious to me), as the apprentice of Batman he was stated from the get go to be something different than Robin, so I don't really see your point.

Oh man, these are your preferences and nothing else.

[WhipWhirlwind]

No No NO Robin isn't a role model. Dressing up and punching people YOU have judged and deemed bad is not an inspirational thing and not something anyone should emulate. It is in fact a crime and something people go to jail for.

i hope kids don't read comics and I hope the teens and up who read comics are smart enough to realise that role models aren't sought in the pages of fiction but are everywhere in real life.
I'm not expecting Batman to be realistic at all and I long ago accepted that Batman is a bad and dangerous man but the Batman needs a Robin takes it to another level. It gives the whole thing [relationship] an unsavoury feel.

Dick Grayson Robin and Jason Robin I don't so strongly about but Tim, Damian, Steph and Duke should never have been a thing.

By your metric no superhero is a role model right?

Characters can be role models because of the ideals/traits they represent.

As a kid I looked up to Robin because it showed me that if you're smart and put enough work into something, you don't have to just sit back and be passive to the adults in your life. Doesn't mean I ever thought about dressing up and fighting crime.

[sakuyamons]

I think we shouldn’t bring “realism” in the world where a man dresses like a Bat and punches psychotic clowns, imo.

[Aioros22]

Based on the Annual it doesn't seem that Dick was living in the manor when Jason became robin. Other wise Alfred wouldn't have given Jason Dick's room and it seems that he meets jason the first time when he was allready Robin (which means at least 6 month after Bruce took him in).

A fact Dick himself was oblivious as well.

What I am just pointing out is that Dick was there when Jason became Robin and according to RATHO Vol 1, he equally gave him pointers in the role. Or tried to.

[millernumber1]

No No NO Robin isn't a role model. Dressing up and punching people YOU have judged and deemed bad is not an inspirational thing and not something anyone should emulate. It is in fact a crime and something people go to jail for.

i hope kids don't read comics and I hope the teens and up who read comics are smart enough to realise that role models aren't sought in the pages of fiction but are everywhere in real life.
I'm not expecting Batman to be realistic at all and I long ago accepted that Batman is a bad and dangerous man but the Batman needs a Robin takes it to another level. It gives the whole thing [relationship] an unsavoury feel.

Dick Grayson Robin and Jason Robin I don't so strongly about but Tim, Damian, Steph and Duke should never have been a thing.

Um. Dressing up and punching people you think is bad is a pretty popular thing right now (not that I think people should be doing it). However, I don't think most people see Robin's inspiration as the punching. For me, it's summed up in the Batman and Robin Eternal line - Robin is a grin in the dark for those without light.

Batman is a bad and dangerous man...um...are you even a fan of Batman comics? Or any superhero comics? And Robin is a big part of why Batman isn't just an insane vengeful vigilante - he's someone who wants to protect the innocent and rebuild his family.

Well, as someone whose favorite Robins are Steph, Tim, and Damian in that order, I obviously disagree with you.

By your metric no superhero is a role model right?

Characters can be role models because of the ideals/traits they represent.

As a kid I looked up to Robin because it showed me that if you're smart and put enough work into something, you don't have to just sit back and be passive to the adults in your life. Doesn't mean I ever thought about dressing up and fighting crime.

Exactly! Robin doesn't let anyone look down on him because of his youth. That's pretty inspirational. And for all its flaws, that's what I enjoyed about We Are Robin as well.

I think we shouldn’t bring “realism” in the world where a man dresses like a Bat and punches psychotic clowns, imo.

Well said. There's so much symbolic (or, if you're not as into the symbolic, psychological) about Batman. Doesn't mean we can't connect with him as a character, but trying to fit him into a "realistic" world is silly.

[CPSparkles]

By your metric no superhero is a role model right?

Characters can be role models because of the ideals/traits they represent.

As a kid I looked up to Robin because it showed me that if you're smart and put enough work into something, you don't have to just sit back and be passive to the adults in your life. Doesn't mean I ever thought about dressing up and fighting crime.

I am opposed to people taking fictional characters as role models. Role Models are to be found in real life. I don't view any Superhero as a role model. Yes some have traits that are admirable and some have compelling stories that we can relate to or that teach positive things but where I come from role models are found in your communities, in history in stories of real life people handed down by elders not fiction.

We all consume our fiction differently at the end of the day.

[Aioros22]

You said it yourself, they emulate qualites that can be inspiring. If you view stories as more than that, something is amiss.

It`s really no different than mythology being spread and sang. It`s about simbolism, not realism.

[CPSparkles]

Um. Dressing up and punching people you think is bad is a pretty popular thing right now (not that I think people should be doing it). However, I don't think most people see Robin's inspiration as the punching. For me, it's summed up in the Batman and Robin Eternal line - Robin is a grin in the dark for those without light.

Batman is a bad and dangerous man...um...are you even a fan of Batman comics? Or any superhero comics? And Robin is a big part of why Batman isn't just an insane vengeful vigilante - he's someone who wants to protect the innocent and rebuild his family.

Well, as someone whose favorite Robins are Steph, Tim, and Damian in that order, I obviously disagree with you.

I am a Batman fan and I am also a Deathstroke and Joker fan.
I will repeat no one expects realism from a world where people come back from the dead.
I like all Robins. Damian is my 2nd favourite and Jason 2nd least favourite but I still think that all robins after Jason are wrong. As much as i love Damian If I was in charge he would never have happened or Bruce would have taken Robin away from him once he returned.

[AzraelOnline]

wow, so much responses since I've been able to read (damn hurricane killing internet in my home area).
I think some of you are really getting waaaaaayy too nit picky on some stuff. Yea, I get it, they should have done their research with some of this stuff, especially people who are long-time real fans will notice it. At the same time there's this other thing to remember; the New 52/Rebirth is really less about a new 'status quo' (and I have to say I hate that effin phrase because now EVERYONE and their dead grandmother is using it) and more about all these people new to writing since the New 52/Rebirth bs started really just aren't life-long comics/DC fans and don't really care to go too far back into doing their homework so they jus figured, screw it, let's just kind of start over and pick and choose what we want to use and just say it's a new universe. It's lazy really.
I mean don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed what Tynion has done, and I like how he says he's such a massive fan of the 90's Batfamily (despite how much he gets wrong), but sometimes it feels like too many books are about good art and less emphasis on truly great stories. Especially with the batfamily there are some truly great one's that should be respected and not, we're going to take from here and there for nostalgic purposes. Easiest points to pick at just in Detective Comics alone are the allusions to Knightfall, KnightsEnd, and now A Lonely Place of Dying.

[Assam]

Not responding to any post in particular but just adding to the conversation, I think superheroes can absolutely be role-models. Cheesy as it sounds, DC's heroes and various Power Rangers are the ones who taught me my values. They're why in Middle School and High School, if I saw someone getting attacked or threatened, I would jump in and stop it. Didn't matter if it meant fighting guys twice my size, a guy with a knife, or someone I knew was going to kick my ass, the lessons I learned about what it means to be a hero, or even just a good person, from these characters taught me the simple truth that defending the defenseless is the right thing to do. I'm in college now, there's no fights here (at least that I'm present for) and it isn't as if I dress up in a costume and seek out crime, but if I'm ever put in a position where I can help/protect someone, I'll still do it.

And, in-story, as others have said, it's ridiculous to call something out because it doesn't reflect the real world in COMICS, Batverse or not.

[sakuyamons]

A fact Dick himself was oblivious as well.

What I am just pointing out is that Dick was there when Jason became Robin and according to RATHO Vol 1, he equally gave him pointers in the role. Or tried to.

I can imagine Dick coming back to his room and he is like “who is this random kid doing in my room” while Jason is snoring because a long night of patrol.

[millernumber1]

I am a Batman fan and I am also a Deathstroke and Joker fan.
I will repeat no one expects realism from a world where people come back from the dead.
I like all Robins. Damian is my 2nd favourite and Jason 2nd least favourite but I still think that all robins after Jason are wrong. As much as i love Damian If I was in charge he would never have happened or Bruce would have taken Robin away from him once he returned.

Hmm. It's just so strange to think about being a Batman fan conceiving of Batman as a villainous character. But if you also like Deathstroke and Joker, that makes more sense.

What's stranger to me is the idea of liking all the Robins, but thinking that they are mostly "wrong" - which I assume means they shouldn't exist. Eh. All sorts of fans make up this fandom!

[TheCape]

Well, the We Are Robin kids where far more interesting than Tim ever was, or ever will be. And while Duke was "Robin" in Future's End (who status as canon is a little dubious to me), as the apprentice of Batman he was stated from the get go to be something different than Robin, so I don't really see your point.

That's like saying that Miles Morales is a more interesting characther than Peter, in concept they are fine, but frankly i barely can't remenber anyone there that wasn't Duke or Riko, and the last one is because her name. I wasn't a big fan of Tim 2 years ago, but at least could you who he was and point out some good moments with him.

[Korath]

That's like saying that Miles Morales is a more interesting characther than Peter, in concept they are fine, but frankly i barely can't remenber anyone there that wasn't Duke or Riko, and the last one is because her name. I wasn't a big fan of Tim 2 years ago, but at least could you who he was and point out some good moments with him.

Which ones ? When he was a Dick Grayson-lite as a Robin, or a Batman-lite as Red Robin before FP ? Tim has always been the new coke of the Batfamily. His Red Robin was the perfect example of it : takes a classical solo Batman story, take out the edge, add unnecessary drama and creepiness, and you get a Tim Drake story as Red Robin.

[millernumber1]

Which ones ? When he was a Dick Grayson-lite as a Robin, or a Batman-lite as Red Robin before FP ? Tim has always been the new coke of the Batfamily. His Red Robin was the perfect example of it : takes a classical solo Batman story, take out the edge, add unnecessary drama and creepiness, and you get a Tim Drake story as Red Robin.

Always is a pretty strong claim. You don't get 183 issues of a series if your fandom thinks you're New Coke. Seriously, I get that you personally hate Tim, but don't be ridiculous.