How Long until Cyclops returns?

[Ulfhammer]

Considering what Emma did to him and in his name, I don't see how a reconciliation is possible. When they broke up in Uncanny X-men, it was a pretty definitive split. Cyclops made that extremely clear. And when he first saw O5 Jean, he also made it extremely clear how he feels about her. Emma lied to him...a lot. She lied to him even after she promised to stop lying to him. That was never a healthy relationship. The fact that they never got serious beyond a certain point is pretty telling, so much so that even Namor pointed that out at one point.

That's why I think if/when Cyclops returns, reconciling with Emma won't be on his to-do list. It would be even more toxic for both characters to get back together at this point because it means Emma becomes a Jean replacement again and Cyclops goes back to a woman who cannot and will not stop lying to him. Even by comic book standards, that's not a very healthy romance. If he's not going to be with Jean, I'd much rather see Cyclops try to get with someone else.

Namor had his own reasons for saying what he did to Emma. Also their relationship did not have the monopoly on lies. Jean and Scott may not have lied to each other directly but their communication skills were legendarily bad and they kept their feelings to themselves so much it felt like it never really progressed beyond a certain point either. Despite how bad Scott and Emma's relationship ended I think Bendis painted some hope for it, especially from Emma's perspective. As for IvX I predict it will eventually be functionally ignored as canon. Ok that's blind hope but still.

For me I think these two are still in love and when has and x-romance every been simple or drama free. One other thing... when Scott comes back Emma will be one of the few people who would still willingly follow him. That's a short list and pretty much guarantee's panel time. The only way this doesn't happen IMO is if Marvel railroads Scott and Jean. If that's their plan (which seems a bit crazy to me) then Emma being a villainous bitch that committed mass murder in Scott's name probably makes a lot more sense.

[Ulfhammer]

on scott side it was the start of his down fall, and a relationship based only on sex with and object. they were not equals.

I wish people would stop repeating this. It turns out couples have sex. I think Jean and Scott even did it once or twice. That does not mean their relationship was based on sex. Where is this even coming from? Show me on panel where one of them says this and I'm a believer. Problem is people post this stuff and then decide their not going to back it up with anything. It just get repeated and repeated though.

As far as equal partners well i don't even know what that's supposed to me. Are you suggesting one of them was subservient to the other? Scott was the leader and he does like to give orders so in an official context sure. But in their personal relationship I don't really see it. And crap that happens when your Phoenix possessed doesn't prove anything.

Also I have a sneaking suspicion you think there's another partner that would be better for Scott.

[Ulfhammer]

Considering what Emma did to him and in his name, I don't see how a reconciliation is possible. When they broke up in Uncanny X-men, it was a pretty definitive split. Cyclops made that extremely clear. And when he first saw O5 Jean, he also made it extremely clear how he feels about her. Emma lied to him...a lot. She lied to him even after she promised to stop lying to him. That was never a healthy relationship. The fact that they never got serious beyond a certain point is pretty telling, so much so that even Namor pointed that out at one point.

That's why I think if/when Cyclops returns, reconciling with Emma won't be on his to-do list. It would be even more toxic for both characters to get back together at this point because it means Emma becomes a Jean replacement again and Cyclops goes back to a woman who cannot and will not stop lying to him. Even by comic book standards, that's not a very healthy romance. If he's not going to be with Jean, I'd much rather see Cyclops try to get with someone else.

Also, way to crush a mans faint hope. Sheesh.

[Zen]

Are you suggesting one of them was subservient to the other?

Not trying to answer for the other poster, but to me Emma Frost comes off as arm candy. It's frustrating. She's a strong capable woman with a brilliant mind, but I feel like when she's with Cyclops she's reduced to nothing more than a Cyclops cheerleader, with an occasional snarky comment thrown in to make it look good. I think she would benefit far better to being on her own, and developing her character without him. If she hadn't of gotten with Cyclops I don't think she would have been in the main X-men books all these years, and that is a shame. Granted, I'm not a fan of hers by any means, and that is not a secret, but I still think it sucks that Emma's only value is as a romantic partner.

It seems that way with Jean Grey, too. I thought Grant Morrison did great things with her character. I know she was partly killed off because she became too phoenixy and overpowered. But I also think she was gotten rid of because she wasn't with Cyclops anymore. It's too bad she couldn't have stayed around. Women have no value unless they are a love interest?

As for Cyclops himself, despite my Maddie comment, if he returns it would be nice to see him be single for a little while. He rarely, if ever, has been single, and frankly it makes it seem like he can't function on his own. Outside of comics, it makes the character look like he just isn't interesting enough on his own to hold anyone's attention without being in a relationship. Inside the comics, his jumping from relationship to relationship makes it seem like there is something wrong with him. And almost all of his relationships have been kind of squicky. Not a good track record.

[Ulfhammer]

Not trying to answer for the other poster, but to me Emma Frost comes off as arm candy. It's frustrating. She's a strong capable woman with a brilliant mind, but I feel like when she's with Cyclops she's reduced to nothing more than a Cyclops cheerleader, with an occasional snarky comment thrown in to make it look good. I think she would benefit far better to being on her own, and developing her character without him. If she hadn't of gotten with Cyclops I don't think she would have been in the main X-men books all these years, and that is a shame. Granted, I'm not a fan of hers by any means, and that is not a secret, but I still think it sucks that Emma's only value is as a romantic partner.

It seems that way with Jean Grey, too. I thought Grant Morrison did great things with her character. I know she was partly killed off because she became too phoenixy and overpowered. But I also think she was gotten rid of because she wasn't with Cyclops anymore. It's too bad she couldn't have stayed around. Women have no value unless they are a love interest?

As for Cyclops himself, despite my Maddie comment, if he returns it would be nice to see him be single for a little while. He rarely, if ever, has been single, and frankly it makes it seem like he can't function on his own. Outside of comics, it makes the character look like he just isn't interesting enough on his own to hold anyone's attention without being in a relationship. Inside the comics, his jumping from relationship to relationship makes it seem like there is something wrong with him. And almost all of his relationships have been kind of squicky. Not a good track record.

It's Scott. Of course their's something wrong with him. And yes he can't function on his own. I'm going to assume that you're aware of Scott's childhood and history since joining the x-men. He's basically a hive mind of neurosis. So for a man with multiple untreated mental conditions I think he's done OK. Basically Scott is massive repression machine. Without someone to actually force him to open up, it just doesn't happen and he gets screwed tighter and tighter until he has a breakdown. So yes, he basically constantly needs someone to put in the emotional labor to keep him functioning. Call it dependence if you must. Comic book relationships are not known for being healthy.

As for the rest we all heard this stuff many times before but I'm thinking it's pretty much head canon for a lot of people. If that's how you want to see Emma and Jean I guess that's your right. I've just never seen them that way. Emma and Jean's influence in the line, not to mention over Scott has been widespread and IMO impactful since the 60's. Non-impactful characters do not play major roles in story arcs over the long term and don't get brought back from the dead to become Avengers evidently (this better be nothing more than a rumor) To imagine these characters are arm candy seems... we'll let's just say I disagree and leave it at that.

[Zen]

Oh, I wasn't saying Jean was/is treated as just arm candy. She was a Claramazon, and had many well written moments in the sun. That's why it's disheartening that she was killed as soon as she wasn't with Scott.

I meant Emma is treated as just arm candy. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Emma Frost. I mean, blecccchhhh! But she deserves better. She deserves better than to have to coddle Scott Summers her whole life. I'm trying to say she can do better!

Don't get me wrong, I like Cyclops. Well, my eyes like Cyclops, anyways. But character wise, he's about a step away from wearing an awful toupee and dating an 18 year old. I'm well aware of his issues. He should just find a mutant friendly psychiatrist. (And double check he isn't accidentally seeing a sex therapist.) Cyclops even makes Wolverine look like a better boyfriend, and Wolverine is the stabby type.

Anyways, if you ship Emma and Cyclops, then you ship them, and that is that. I don't. I don't find Emma or Cyclops very likeable. I often think they're together because nobody else could stand them. Hey, differing opinions make the world go around. But just try to think of the possibilities. Emma and Cyclops had been together from about 2001-2002 until a few years ago. Scott coming back and just going right back to the same old relationship is pretty boring.

[Lokimaru]

Not trying to answer for the other poster, but to me Emma Frost comes off as arm candy. It's frustrating. She's a strong capable woman with a brilliant mind, but I feel like when she's with Cyclops she's reduced to nothing more than a Cyclops cheerleader, with an occasional snarky comment thrown in to make it look good. I think she would benefit far better to being on her own, and developing her character without him. If she hadn't of gotten with Cyclops I don't think she would have been in the main X-men books all these years, and that is a shame. Granted, I'm not a fan of hers by any means, and that is not a secret, but I still think it sucks that Emma's only value is as a romantic partner.

It seems that way with Jean Grey, too. I thought Grant Morrison did great things with her character. I know she was partly killed off because she became too phoenixy and overpowered. But I also think she was gotten rid of because she wasn't with Cyclops anymore. It's too bad she couldn't have stayed around. Women have no value unless they are a love interest?

As for Cyclops himself, despite my Maddie comment, if he returns it would be nice to see him be single for a little while. He rarely, if ever, has been single, and frankly it makes it seem like he can't function on his own. Outside of comics, it makes the character look like he just isn't interesting enough on his own to hold anyone's attention without being in a relationship. Inside the comics, his jumping from relationship to relationship makes it seem like there is something wrong with him. And almost all of his relationships have been kind of squicky. Not a good track record.

Scott kinda old to be playing the dating game imo. That's why I hate what Morrison did. He played with the toys, broke them then walked away whistling. That's a really shitty thing to do to long time fans.

Zen Scott and Emma were together for entirely bullshit reasons. This man went to her for help and she took advantage of him. If the roles were reversed people would have wanted Scott's head on a pike. The guy was messed up after merging with Apocalyse. Hell him and Jean should have went away together to let the man heal but no they we're thrown right back into the shit like nothing was wrong. Scott at the least was suffering from PTSD yet nothingvwad done about it and That's why the whole thing is so fucked up. Problem with Morrison is he writes characters to fit situations instead of situations to fit the characters. Scott cheated on Jean with Emma because Morrison needed him to not because Scott actually would. See what I mean? Morrison based his characterization of Scott on false info. He basicly though a man who'd leave his first wife would also leave his second forgeting tgat the second wife was also the love of his life and that they'd been married for close to 15 years by that point. Both Scott and Jean are older then they appear.

[CuteClops]

...Inside the comics, his jumping from relationship to relationship makes it seem like there is something wrong with him...

Well, just like Tony Stark, Matt Murdock, Clint Barton, Peter Parker, Kitty Pryde, Johnny Storm, Logan, Psylocke, and so on...

Scott coming back and just going right back to the same old relationship is pretty boring.

Yes, I totally agree. Jean and Scott together again would be pretty boring.

No more Jott, please.

[DDM]

I wish it wasn't the case but at the rate we're going (Logan, Xavier, Jean) it's only a matter of time. The Phoenix probably shat out an egg with Scott somewhere in Alaska.

[CoCoBandz]

Cyclops will save the X-Men when he comes back.

[Dethi]

Well, just like Tony Stark, Matt Murdock, Clint Barton, Peter Parker, Kitty Pryde, Johnny Storm, Logan, Psylocke, and so on...

Expect all the time, Scott had a relationship with an other woman it was because Jean was (or he thought she was) dead. With her return and his (if he come back) there is like no reason he wouldn't return to his wife especially when you know that he still love her when he died.

[Gridde]

If he comes back, I hope it's to headline another series like Uncanny X-Men vol.4 (aka the one where he was a 'revolutionary').

I'd rather he stay dead then be resurrected purely to act as a prop for whichever team/character Marvel is pushing at the time.

[FUBAR007]

Jean and Scott may not have lied to each other directly but their communication skills were legendarily bad and they kept their feelings to themselves so much it felt like it never really progressed beyond a certain point either.

Um...did you not read X-Men comics in the 90s? Or, before that, the Louise Simonson run on X-Factor? Scott and Jean communicated constantly, talking about their feelings quite openly and in thorough detail. Moreover, once she got her telepathy back, they were linked by the psychic rapport. I can rattle off numerous issue numbers if you need them for reference.

There was no communication breakdown until Morrison's run and even that was a plot contrivance a) deliberately intended to split them up and b) that made no sense if you thought about it for more than a few seconds.

I swear. For Scemma shippers, it's like no Scott and Jean story between Bob Layton's run on X-Factor and Grant Morrison's first issue was ever published.

[FUBAR007]

Zen Scott and Emma were together for entirely bullshit reasons.

Agreed.

This man went to her for help and she took advantage of him. If the roles were reversed people would have wanted Scott's head on a pike. The guy was messed up after merging with Apocalyse. Hell him and Jean should have went away together to let the man heal but no they we're thrown right back into the shit like nothing was wrong. Scott at the least was suffering from PTSD yet nothingvwad done about it and That's why the whole thing is so fucked up.

Agreed.

Problem with Morrison is he writes characters to fit situations instead of situations to fit the characters.

Not always, but, in this case, yes.

Scott cheated on Jean with Emma because Morrison needed him to not because Scott actually would.

Bingo.

[lancer]

The characters are what they do on the page.Of course they are not real. They are fictional constructs who only do what a writer or writers have them do. That said, it's one way or the other. It can't be, when I like it then it's the character I'm invested in. But when I hate it then it's the writer I blame. No, I don't think Morrison got the character right. However, I judge the character by what he did in the books.

I don't think he had that severe a case of PTSD. He functioned fine in the field. He was deeply traumatized as many characters have been. Absolutely, this started with Emma going to him. It certainly could b argued that she instigated. However, he knew it was wrong and let it happen. Yes, Emma is plenty culpable as will.I don't give a crap about Emma. My behavioral expectations for Scott and Jean were not based on what Emma Frost did or didn't do. They were based on their own past behavior.

Like early X FACTOR. Much as I dislike it, I don't see how adultery is in character for Scott. He wouldn't cheat with Jean. Now I'm supposed to believe h would with Emma. Clearly, though, one reader's out of character is another's in character. Or at least believable character evolution. Hell, I didn't like how Jean behaved in the catfight issue with Emma. Only because I have high behavioral expectations for Jean.I don't care that Emma is a bitch. I know she's a bitch. I expect no better from her. I did from Jean. It wasn't like the affair. It didn't ruin the character for me. Just disappointed me. But in the end Jean wound up putting her back together showing that she was the bigger and better person. Ten times the person Emma Frost could ever dream of being. Well, at that point, anyway. Haven't read enough since then to really know.

Loki mentioned the toys. Back then, on one forum, I still remember one poster's phrase. Grant always puts the toys back the way he found them. I was like Loki. He smashed the toys into pieces. You can't just put them back on the shelf now.

As for when Scott returns, you wouldn't think it would be long. Who knows? I would have bet money Jean would have been back long, long ago. They tied her to a resurrection device. She had the easiest of ways to undo her death.