'Avengers: No Surrender' Crossover Starting in January

[John Ossie]

Nah the only hint we got at that is "an avenger making the ultimate sacrifice!" or fall in the solicits for one of the issues, paraphrasing. Probably 679, judging by the cover.

Ok. At least I didn't miss anything LOL.

[Digifiend]

I wonder if they’re only killing off second tier Avengers (e.g Voyager, Jane, Sunspot, Vision) for a while or if they’ll just keep killing people off every month for contrived drama until there’s a time travel reset at the end. I wouldn’t put the second option past them.

Jane has plot armour, because if she dies, it'd be in her own book. A Vision death I can actually see sticking, he might feel he has little to live for if Viv is killed (she's already depowered). If Voyager dies, it wouldn't be until the finale.

[Kaijudo]

Jane has plot armour, because if she dies, it'd be in her own book. A Vision death I can actually see sticking, he might feel he has little to live for if Viv is killed (she's already depowered). If Voyager dies, it wouldn't be until the finale.

Another thought I had on Vision: his death could potentially line up with the character's death in the movies. He's powered by an infinity stone there and if Thanos gets that stone, then it's goodbye Vision (plus, I can see Paul Bettany looking forward to the day when he doesn't ever have to do that makeup again).

[JudicatorPrime]

you can see that same look at any strip joint; with an even smaller bathing suit.

Believe it or not, I've never been to a strip joint. Ever. Don't see the point. And I wasn't saying that I want Carol to go back to those uniforms, or that she needs to wear something amazon-like and revealing. I'm simply saying that it made me think of the good ol' days. I'm not a fan of her current uniform.

[JudicatorPrime]

Vision is a synthetic being, so his "death" doesn't count. It wouldn't take much to rebuild/restore him. I feel the same way about other artificial beings, like Adam Warlock, and clones.

If they're going to kill someone off, let's make it worth the anguish. Is Quicksilver still around? Let's cue up the taps for him. Or Starfox. Or Hercules. Or Scarlet Witch. Or Unworthy Thor (who inevitably gets reborn with help from Gaea into his true Elder God and very much worthy guise.) Heck, I can think of a half a dozen or more Avengers that they could whack. Call me, Marvel. I've got ideas!

[Byakko]

Vision is a synthetic being, so his "death" doesn't count. It wouldn't take much to rebuild/restore him. I feel the same way about other artificial beings, like Adam Warlock, and clones.

If they're going to kill someone off, let's make it worth the anguish. Is Quicksilver still around? Let's cue up the taps for him. Or Starfox. Or Hercules. Or Scarlet Witch. Or Unworthy Thor (who inevitably gets reborn with help from Gaea into his true Elder God and very much worthy guise.) Heck, I can think of a half a dozen or more Avengers that they could whack. Call me, Marvel. I've got ideas!

Within the comicverse and since the Death of Superman, it's clear that the 'flesh and blood' heroes are just as expendable and repeatable as the 'synthetic' ones. They're all synthetic, they're fictional characters and dance to the tune of a pencil.

Like Hawkeye came back from being exploded. Heroes Reborn, Secret Wars etc. Yeah it doesn't matter at all what kind of character they are, they're come back if the editor wants them to.

That said, it's such a brick joke that Vision is that expendable, and because he's a mainstay on the roster you'll know he'll be rebuilt, come back whatever.

I'd feel more if Viv dies. Minor character that is unlikely to be returning, so her death would actually stick. While at the same time, really being pretty expendable.

There is some irony in that the death of a minor character is more likely to be impactful just because they have such low chances of being brought back compared to roster-mains.

[Frontier]

Another thought I had on Vision: his death could potentially line up with the character's death in the movies. He's powered by an infinity stone there and if Thanos gets that stone, then it's goodbye Vision (plus, I can see Paul Bettany looking forward to the day when he doesn't ever have to do that makeup again).

I keep thinking they're going to kill off Quicksilver since he's dead in the movies, and yet, Pietro persists...

[Kaijudo]

I keep thinking they're going to kill off Quicksilver since he's dead in the movies, and yet, Pietro persists...

And is alive and well and fairly popular in the X-Men movies.

[Captain M]

Jim Zub keeps using the number 25 when talking about the number of heroes involved in the story. Let's round them up.

Falcon
Thor (Jane)
Hercules
Spider-Man (Peter)
Wasp (Nadia)
Vision
Rogue
Wasp (Janet)
Wonder Man
Beast
Scarlet Witch
Dr. Voodoo
Synapse
Quicksilver
Human Torch
Sunspot
Cannonball
Red Hulk
Iron Patriot
Enigma
Squirrel Girl
Red Wolf
Hawkeye
Living Lightning
Hulk (Banner)

Hmm. This is what I came up with.

[Captain M]

Maybe 25 is just a rounded up number.

[Digifiend]

Surely it's more like 30? There's new character Voyager, and Captain America, Nova, and Totally Awesome Hulk were all on the first issue's wraparound cover.

[Captain M]

Surely it's more like 30? There's new character Voyager, and Captain America, Nova, and Totally Awesome Hulk were all on the first issue's wraparound cover.

Yeah I'm a little confused he used this number a few times. Maybe 25 are considered to be the focus while 6 out of those 25 are central.

So 6 tier1. 19 tier2. Some tier3. And some cameos, what do you think?

[Digifiend]

Black Panther and Captain Marvel as well.

[King_Thor13]

Jim Zub keeps using the number 25 when talking about the number of heroes involved in the story. Let's round them up.

1. Falcon
2. Thor (Jane)
3. Hercules
4. Spider-Man (Peter)
5. Wasp (Nadia)
6. Vision
7. Rogue
8. Wasp (Janet)
9. Wonder Man
10. Beast
11. Scarlet Witch
12. Dr. Voodoo
13. Synapse
14. Quicksilver
15. Human Torch
16. Sunspot
17. Cannonball
18. Red Hulk
19. Iron Patriot
20. Enigma
21. Squirrel Girl
22. Red Wolf
23. Hawkeye
24. Living Lightning
25. Hulk (Banner)

Hmm. This is what I came up with.

You're forgetting Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Voyager

I suppose there may be 25 'central' characters while characters like Enigma, Red Wolf or Red Hulk may be around but not a huge part of the narrative.

[Nomads1]

Jim Zub keeps using the number 25 when talking about the number of heroes involved in the story. Let's round them up.

Falcon
Thor (Jane)
Hercules
Spider-Man (Peter)
Wasp (Nadia)
Vision
Rogue
Wasp (Janet)
Wonder Man
Beast
Scarlet Witch
Dr. Voodoo
Synapse
Quicksilver
Human Torch
Sunspot
Cannonball
Red Hulk
Iron Patriot
Enigma
Squirrel Girl
Red Wolf
Hawkeye
Living Lightning
Hulk (Banner)

Hmm. This is what I came up with.

I look at that list and I find it amazing that half don't even come to mind when I think of Avengers, and they're the ones taking part on the biggest Avengers event in years. Times do change, I guess.

Peace