Wonder Woman #31 *Spoilers*

[Doctor Bifrost]

why didn't Grail strike out at someone like Milan or Siracca to get the ball rolling and maybe at the end strike someone like Hercules?

She may have.

Also, in the transition form The New 52 to Rebirth, they may not exist.

[Sacred Knight]

Not really. I mean even in Pre-Crisis Diana had Nubia who was her sister crafted from black clay etc... And was considered a blood sister from what I understand.

Johns didn't set this up to be a symbolic relationship though. They are blood twins by a natural birth. Granted the history has changed some since what we saw in DW, but DW was setting up Rebirth in the first place, thus to me its pretty obvious the intent is and always was to fold this particular layer into the Rebirth continuity, just like has been the method throughout the DCU.

[Astroman]

Johns didn't set this up to be a symbolic relationship though. They are blood twins by a natural birth. Granted the history has changed some since what we saw in DW, but DW was setting up Rebirth in the first place, thus to me its pretty obvious the intent is and always was to fold this particular layer into the Rebirth continuity, just like has been the method throughout the DCU.

Yeah. I just re-read Rebirth (wanted to wash the taste of Marvel's Legacy #1 out of my mouth) and the scene with Grail regarding Jason and Diana there is pretty damn seamless with what we saw this issue, and with Robinson's comments in his interviews.

[Outside_85]

Also, in the transition form The New 52 to Rebirth, they may not exist.

If that was the case, this story and Grail would not exist, because she was born on an island that doesn't and never has existed.

[Vaffrey]

B) Rucka only unmade the New 52 Amazons, he didn't mention anything else. Also if thats the case, this whole story is built on something that never happened.

Although the revelation of Jason's birth was shown with the New 52 Hippolyta giving birth. Rucka very clearly showed us an entirely different Hippolyta is actually Diana's mother.

[Sacred Knight]

But you gotta look at it from the point of view of how Rebirth changed things. Some New 52 stuff was folded in with the more familiar pre-FP continuity, to create this quasi-new one. Based on that context, it wasn't enough to just show that the Amazons were different. It would have had to have been pointed out that her clay origin was indeed back by showing it at some point in the run. It would have had to have been explicitly pointed out that the changing of the Amazons also removed the Jason concept. And so on. Without those specifics, it was always highly likely that what happened was that when continuity changed, it just folded in the Darkseid War revelations, making it that it was the real Hippolyta, the dark-haired one, who gave birth to Diana and Jason. And indeed as it turns out that looks to be exactly the case.

[SiegePerilous02]

Were we ever explicitly sown the blonde Hippolyta giving birth in the flasbacks from Myrina's perspective? I only recall seeing New 52 Hipplolyta in a flashback to Diana's memories, and Rebirth quickly revealed that those memories are not those of a reliable narrator's. In that case, brunette Hippolyta sleeping with Zeus also is not some out of the blue revelation. It was strongly hinted at in part 2 of "Year One."

Honestly, DC's intentions with this are so transparent that I'm not getting where the confusion is coming from. The clay birth was not brought up even once during Rucka's run, so they're not contradicting anything by bringing back Jason and Grail. They determined that the New 52 Amazons and the stories generated from them were not worth the hassle of keeping around so they let Rucka get rid of them, but the parentage stuck. I think people on either side of the fence are not happy with what is plainly the end result, and so come up with reasons to make it more confusing than it actually is.

[Doctor Bifrost]

If that was the case, this story and Grail would not exist, because she was born on an island that doesn't and never has existed.

Then she was born in some other way, on some other version of the island - or somewhere else - that we haven't seen yet. We're in the middle of the transition from The New 52 to Rebirth, and still waiting for a lot of details on "The Truth." It is quite possible the the passel of Zeus's children introduced in Azzarello's run do not exist (or some of them do not exist, or many of them do not exist, or all of them still exist) and Grail - some version of Grail - still be in continuity.

It is an annoyingly vague time, which makes it easy for the writers to say anything they feel like.

[Fenix]

Although the revelation of Jason's birth was shown with the New 52 Hippolyta giving birth. Rucka very clearly showed us an entirely different Hippolyta is actually Diana's mother.

The only difference being their hair color, which is entirely an artistic decision. Hippolyta has been on again off again blonde and brunette since the existence of her character.

Some of you guys are in denial.

[Pinsir]

This honestly feels like a direct sequel to the New 52 stories.

[sparechange]

I've kinda just been working off the assumption that both sets of origins are real simultaneously. Like, the island where Diana became queen and her blonde haired mother was turned to clay and where her twin brother was born, it's a lie. But what can be truer than a lie told by gods? A lie so powerful that shades of it become truth. Like, we've seen the island, we've seen BOTH islands, and despite one of them not being Diana's true home, it lives as such regardless.

Its magic, anyways. It doesn't have to make sense. Even if it should.

[Qwerty]

Really great art after the last arc went from just awful to kind of okay. Don't agree that it's the best since rebirth but it's really darn good.

I'm fine with herc dying cause I consider him a marvel character

[El_Gato]

Because of the movie and, more importantly, its success, DC shoehorned itself into retaining Azzarello’s origin for Diana as mainstream DCU canon and effectively retconned Rucka’s REBIRTH mortal Diana. Personally, I’m okay with Diana being immortal and a god/demigod and I very much like how Robinson defers to Patty Jenkins’s take on Diana.

As long as we don’t get the Herodotus man slaying, sex pirate Amazons in DCU mainstream continuity, I’m good.

The Demi-God, Zeus' daughter origin, is also being used in DC SuperHero Girls and many of DC's mobile games. With the success of the movie, it's pretty much here to stay imo.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think it's mentioned already, but it looks like Hercules is wearing the armor made for him by the Atomic Knights in the pre-Crisis continuity, on whatever Earth that took place on. It may be an Easter egg, but maybe this Herc has some of that history intact. Maybe he's traveled the Multiverse?

And does anyone else think the statue Giganta was holding looks rather Cthulhu-like?

[Outside_85]

Although the revelation of Jason's birth was shown with the New 52 Hippolyta giving birth. Rucka very clearly showed us an entirely different Hippolyta is actually Diana's mother.

And the thing is that like Rucka, Robinson could have been given free hands to do whatever he wanted and pick and mix from where he wants... meaning we are risking reaching a point where the changes Rucka made to the Amazons are largely undone because Robinson has used the New 52 Amazons so many times that some version of them has to exist somewhere.

Or who knows, maybe we get the explanation that Grail is (surprise!) not from this Earth. Or her origins is actually something else entirely... like being a Diana-clone from the Dark-Multiverse where Darkseid is her dad rather than Zeus... :S