Nightwing: The New Order #2

[Korath]

You cant really compare gun control to experiments on people without consent, forced medication and imprisoning people without trial etc

But in this story, it is. You could go to your local supermarket and buy superpowers and that's led to a whole lot of problems. In N:TNO, powers are guns, the protests have basically placards where you can swap "gun" for "power" and it works perfectly.

[Hizashi]

Premise: everything I'm going to write is strictly a persnal opinion of mine. I'm not here to proselytize my point of view.

It's no mystery that I just can't stand Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. The way I see it, as a character she's too boring to be true. So for a time I thought that the disdain I felt for the role Ms. Gordon was shoe-horned back in in 2011 was the one factor that colored myperception of the DickxBabs pairing. Then came the two issues Convergence: Oracle & Nightwing and, even with Barbara in the role of Oracle (a concept I've always loved), my feelings about their relationship were exactly the same from beginning to end.

Then I realized the real reason behind my disdain.

I can't stand the DickxBabs pairing becuse I feel that it's the gravestone over Dick's potential as a character. The way I see it, he has so much history behind him and is so connected with the wider DCU that seeing him paired with another member of the Bat-Family is equivalent to negating his versatility and adaptability. It's the same reason I have nothing against the DickxHelena pairing that was pushed by Seeley (+ King) in the pages of Grayson and then currently on Nightwing. Not only Bertinelli was never a part of the Batman family (in a sense, not even before the New52) but they met in a title that was the most succesful attempt in recent history to use Dick as something more than a street-level vigilante sometimes lent to an all-new, all-disappointing incarnation of the Titans.

I ultimately feel that trapping him in the aforementioned role is a disservice to a character that reached full maturity in a title where nobody felt any issues with the concepts of pairing him up with an orange-skinned alien princess and that established that battles with gods, demons, sorcerers and world-wide terrorist organizations could be his bread and butter as much as scuffles with drug traffickers in Gotham harbour. With the utmost respect to the fans of Barbara Gordon, I feel that she's too small and boring for Dick Grayson.

Thank you. I never really thought of it that way, but I see your point. I agree that Dick is actually being limited by the bat-family in many ways, and I loved him with Kory.

Few characters have a connection to their larger shared universe like Nightwing does, and his potential is being wasted in Bludhaven.

[Hizashi]

But in this story, it is. You could go to your local supermarket and buy superpowers and that's led to a whole lot of problems. In N:TNO, powers are guns, the protests have basically placards where you can swap "gun" for "power" and it works perfectly.

I'd like to point out that if you're correct, and superpowers are a proxy for guns in this story, if you're an advocate for gun control, you should be aware that the story would in that case be arguing against gun control from a moral perspective. Dick and this new regime are clearly on the moral gray side, leaning dark, and the world the story takes place in is basically fascist. They've taken "guns" from law-abiding citizens and criminals alike.

[Korath]

I'd like to point out that if you're correct, and superpowers are a proxy for guns in this story, if you're an advocate for gun control, you should be aware that the story would in that case be arguing against gun control from a moral perspective. Dick and this new regime are clearly on the moral gray side, leaning dark, and the world the story takes place in is basically fascist. They've taken "guns" from law-abiding citizens and criminals alike.

Yup, that made me uneasy with the story, because I'm an advocate for gun control (well, I would be if I lived in the US), so this undertone somehow marred the issue to me. I hope Dick find a way to makes things right without letting powers run rampant, even in the hands of law abiding citizens.

[Lady Nightwing]

But in this story, it is. You could go to your local supermarket and buy superpowers and that's led to a whole lot of problems. In N:TNO, powers are guns, the protests have basically placards where you can swap "gun" for "power" and it works perfectly.

It is only superficially similar. Some people were buying superpowers, others were born with them. So people are being targeted because of their genetics. There's also the people that are locked away until Dick and co. can figure out away to neutralise their powers. They might not be criminals but they're being imprisoned regardless.

[TheCape]

Personally spealking i couldn't get on board with the HelenaxDick relationship after that Future's End one-shot. Even when i think that it has some potential.

[Hizashi]

Yup, that made me uneasy with the story, because I'm an advocate for gun control (well, I would be if I lived in the US), so this undertone somehow marred the issue to me. I hope Dick find a way to makes things right without letting powers run rampant, even in the hands of law abiding citizens.

Ultimately, with such a heavy subject matter, the story will be judged by the message that Higgins is trying to convey to us. It's unfortunate, but this seems like a book that'll read better as a trade.

[Hizashi]

Personally spealking i couldn't get on board with the HelenaxDick relationship after that Future's End one-shot. Even when i think that it has some potential.

Is there a character you prefer him with?

[TheCape]

Is there a character you prefer him with?

I ship Dick with heroism more than anything else, it is his true love .
But if i had to decide, probably Starfire, the way that people ignore how important for Dick's grown as a person and it bothers me to see it disminished as some sort of unimportant fling (or worse than Dick was with her only for her body), besides the fan art of the Grayson/Kory family is cute.
I actually like DickxBabs, but only when it was written by Dixon, that man did a masterfull slowburn for the couple and was one the most enjoyable things about his run with the characther, but beyond him, i had met garbage or dissapointment more often that not.
DickxHelena is an interesting idea, but is usually clouded with thar interpretation that Dick is atracted to people like Bruce "so sour and dark and perfect", pass, big pass, please stop using Devyn Grayson's run as a default definition of what Dick characther is.
Wow, that was longer that i intended, but yeah i don't really need Dick to be with anyone, having him doing what he loves is enought for me, Kory is my choice, but not by a wide margin.

[Hizashi]

I ship Dick with heroism more than anything else, it is his true love .
But if i had to decide, probably Starfire, the way that people ignore how important for Dick's grown as a person and it bothers me to see it disminished as some sort of unimportant fling (or worse than Dick was with her only for her body), besides the fan art of the Grayson/Kory family is cute.
I actually like DickxBabs, but only when it was written by Dixon, that man did a masterfull slowburn for the couple and was one the most enjoyable things about his run with the characther, but beyond him, i had met garbage or dissapointment more often that not.
DickxHelena is an interesting idea, but is usually clouded with thar interpretation that Dick is atracted to people like Bruce "so sour and dark and perfect", pass, big pass, please stop using Devyn Grayson's run as a default definition of what Dick characther is.
Wow, that was longer that i intended, but yeah i don't really need Dick to be with anyone, having him doing what he loves is enought for me, Kory is my choice, but not by a wide margin.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I've never actually read Dixon's work with the character, is it worth a look? I only got into comics around Infinite Crisis, so I have yet to read the Nightwing book from the early 2000's.

[TheCape]

Yeah, I see what you mean. I've never actually read Dixon's work with the character, is it worth a look? I only got into comics around Infinite Crisis, so I have yet to read the Nightwing book from the early 2000's.

In my opinion, yeah it is, is a pretty solid series and Dixon does a very good job getting Dick's voice and he build a decent supporting cast. His run last from issue 1 to 70 and has been getting collected in trades again recently, i think that they 5 volumes so far.

[WonderNight]

Thank you. I never really thought of it that way, but I see your point. I agree that Dick is actually being limited by the bat-family in many ways, and I loved him with Kory.

Few characters have a connection to their larger shared universe like Nightwing does, and his potential is being wasted in Bludhaven.

Man that's what I've been saying forever. dick is still way to mush connected to batman, as nightwing he's as much under batman as he was when he was robin that'a problem. dick should be his own force the the greater dcu not batman's wingman but dick/babs locks him in to the bat corner.

[Godlike13]

There are two sides to that. Look at how the other Titans have faired, and are fairing, and even look at Dick's current portrayal outside of the bat side in Titans.

[CryNotWolf]

Man that's what I've been saying forever. dick is still way to mush connected to batman, as nightwing he's as much under batman as he was when he was robin that'a problem. dick should be his own force the the greater dcu not batman's wingman but dick/babs locks him in to the bat corner.

Being the original Robin is a ridiculously big deal. He's one of the most important characters in the most storied mythos in superhero comics. I fail to see that as a problem. Do you not realize how many chances Dick has had as a character that weren't afforded to countless others simply because of his unique connection to Batman? Come on now.

[WonderNight]

There are two sides to that. Look at how the other Titans have fared, and are fairing, and even look at Dick's current portrayal outside of the bat side in Titans.

yeah I know. I don't what disconnect from batman orthe family, he's just to much under batman. like you said look at his portrayal it's bat or titan, if nightwing could stand more on his own in the greater dcu he would not need bat or titan. he'd have nightwing.