What will happen with Adult Cyclops & Emma Frost?

[Victorian_Soul]

I don't quite sure but hating Cyclops is kind of a silly at this point.
People just won't shut up about making out with Emma Frost on Jean's grave and abandoning his wife. oh...the usual.... What a poor excuse for a human being. lol He wasn't a perfect hero, he's not suppose to be, and he never will ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No said he's suppose to be a perfect hero, also making out on someone's grave is distasteful. Also many people hate on Jean, Beast, Emma, Logan, Kitty, etc. I don't see you saying it's silly.

[Hizashi]

Sure, most of v_jeovanne's examples aren't the same as a psychic affair, but why is everyone ignoring the Secret Wars example? Is it false?

[ZNOP]

No said he's suppose to be a perfect hero, also making out on someone's grave is distasteful. Also many people hate on Jean, Beast, Emma, Logan, Kitty, etc. I don't see you saying it's silly.

But, how else was the reader going to get the message that Jean was dead and buried? Have her rise from the gave and tell Scott to love Emma because all she ever did was die on him?

[Victorian_Soul]

But, how else was the reader going to get the message that Jean was dead and buried? Have her rise from the gave and tell Scott to love Emma because all she ever did was die on him?

Expect she never really died on him though. Also they saw Jean die. how would making out on a recently deceased woman's grave work as a way of letting readers know she died?

[ZNOP]

Expect she never really died on him though. Also they saw Jean die.

Tell that to the Morrison fans who constantly point out that Jean personally sanctioned Scott and Emma falling in love...

how would making out on a recently deceased woman's grave work as a way of letting readers know she died?

That was Jean's grave (headstone and all) that Emma and Scott were shagging on was it not? Or, are you under the impression that Jean wasn't actually buried there?

[Hizashi]

Tell that to the Morrison fans who constantly point out that Jean personally sanctioned Scott and Emma falling in love...



That was Jean grave (headstone and all) that Emma and Scott were shagging on was it not? Unless your under the impression that she wasn't in there...

I can't speak for all Scott fans, and I don't like Morrison's entire run, but is it so far-fetched that the first change resulting from Jean's intervention being Scott accepting Emma's offer can be interpreted as Jean giving her blessing for him to move on? She claims that Emma does indeed love Scott and that Scott needs her.

You can check my previous posts: I don't excuse Scott's affair, or his being with Emma so quickly after Jean's death, and I'm not opposed to Jean moving on. I just want a quality story.

[Ulfhammer]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]

Tell that to the Morrison fans who constantly point out that Jean personally sanctioned Scott and Emma falling in love...

You don't have to be a Morrison fan to accept that Jean effected the situation. It's a correlation vs causation question. We don't know exactly what Jean changed. It's not explicit in the text. So Jean could have made some other change to Scott's personality or perspective and that change led to him reconsidering a relationship with Emma and staying with the school. It's either a direct causation or an indirect one.

The one line many overlook in HCT is one offered by a fellow Phoenix Host to Jean "If you want it to grow a new future to replace the one you just cut away … you have to water it with your heart's blood". I think the concept of an emotional sacrifice are pretty clear in this line. To create a new future, a sacrifice had to be made. What greater sacrifice could anyone give then to push the heart of the one they love towards another? The consequences of this choice are pretty serious but the alternatives, as Jean now knows, are much worse. I think it was intended as a noble sacrifice.

If other actors besides Jean were influencing him at the same time then we could say, well maybe it was someone else's influence. The only other character portrayed in that moment in time was Emma. The issue clearly shows that Emma's efforts alone weren't enough to change his mind. The "before" and "after" panel show a complete 180 degree turn on Scott's part. The logical conclusion is that Jean either directly or indirectly brought about this change in events.

The only other option is that Jean essentially re-rolled the encounter. She recreated the situation giving Scott an opportunity to make a different choice. The problem is that everything we understand about human nature leads me to believe that any person, confronted with a choice, and all other variables or factors remain the same, would ultimately make the same choice.

One or more factors in Scott's decision making process changed. Because only Jean is portrayed as changing anything between the first encounter Scott and Emma had, and the second, it's a verily safe bet that she's responsible for the change.

[Victorian_Soul]

Tell that to the Morrison fans who constantly point out that Jean personally sanctioned Scott and Emma falling in love...



That was Jean's grave (headstone and all) that Emma and Scott were shagging on was it not? Or, are you under the impression that Jean wasn't actually buried there?

I know Jean was buried there considering in Endsong she rises from the grave. Also you first claim Scott and Emma shagging on her grave is a way of letting people know that Jean died. How did you get that I believed she wasn't buried?

[MyriVerse]

Anything's possible.

But I'm not convinced Scott would have liked anything Emma's done recently.

[Hizashi]

Anything's possible.

But I'm not convinced Scott would have liked anything Emma's done recently.

Yeah, it's an interesting thing to consider.

[Hizashi]

You don't have to be a Morrison fan to accept that Jean effected the situation. It's a correlation vs causation question. We don't know exactly what Jean changed. It's not explicit in the text. So Jean could have made some other change to Scott's personality or perspective and that change led to him reconsidering a relationship with Emma and staying with the school. It's either a direct causation or an indirect one.

The one line many overlook in HCT is one offered by a fellow Phoenix Host to Jean "If you want it to grow a new future to replace the one you just cut away … you have to water it with your heart's blood". I think the concept of an emotional sacrifice are pretty clear in this line. To create a new future, a sacrifice had to be made. What greater sacrifice could anyone give then to push the heart of the one they love towards another? The consequences of this choice are pretty serious but the alternatives, as Jean now knows, are much worse. I think it was intended as a noble sacrifice.

If other actors besides Jean were influencing him at the same time then we could say, well maybe it was someone else's influence. The only other character portrayed in that moment in time was Emma. The issue clearly shows that Emma's efforts alone weren't enough to change his mind. The "before" and "after" panel show a complete 180 degree turn on Scott's part. The logical conclusion is that Jean either directly or indirectly brought about this change in events.

The only other option is that Jean essentially re-rolled the encounter. She recreated the situation giving Scott an opportunity to make a different choice. The problem is that everything we understand about human nature leads me to believe that any person, confronted with a choice, and all other variables or factors remain the same, would ultimately make the same choice.

One or more factors in Scott's decision making process changed. Because only Jean is portrayed as changing anything between the first encounter Scott and Emma had, and the second, it's a verily safe bet that she's responsible for the change.

I wasn't able to say it better myself, well done.

[Ulfhammer]

Anything's possible.

But I'm not convinced Scott would have liked anything Emma's done recently.

Agreed, Scott would have strongly disagreed with elements of her behavior in DoX and IvX, but especially Secret Empire. If you consider UXM 600 as Scott's philosophical swan song I think it's clear he had started to turn a corner from whatever the mutant revolution was supposed to be to something more cooperative with Xavier's original vision.

All that said, Scott's always know the capability for darkness in Emma. He's seen it himself first hand. Clearly that wasn't a major stumbling block in the past. I think that's because he'd also seen her capability to be compassionate and self-sacrificing. If her time in the Hellfire Club wasn't enough to turn him off, I'm not sure this will either.

Of course who knows what the status quo will be when he gets back and I think a lot depends on that, and also how he is received.

[Hizashi]

Agreed, Scott would have strongly disagreed with elements of her behavior in DoX and IvX, but especially Secret Empire. If you consider UXM 600 as Scott's philosophical swan song I think it's clear he had started to turn a corner from whatever the mutant revolution was supposed to be to something more cooperative with Xavier's original vision.

All that said, Scott's always know the capability for darkness in Emma. He's seen it himself first hand. Clearly that wasn't a major stumbling block in the past. I think that's because he'd also seen her capability to be compassionate and self-sacrificing. If her time in the Hellfire Club wasn't enough to turn him off, I'm not sure this will either.

Of course who knows what the status quo will be when he gets back and I think a lot depends on that, and also how he is received.

Definitely. I think there's quite a bit they have to work through before they should entertain any relationship, and you're right that the status quo when he returns will play a big part in how the two of them are handled.

[Ulfhammer]

Definitely. I think there's quite a bit they have to work through before they should entertain any relationship, and you're right that the status quo when he returns will play a big part in how the two of them are handled.

Something occurred to me on the drive home today... There's really no good reason for Marvel to bring Cyke back. I don't just mean now, I mean like ever. All his stories can be told through other characters now. Simpler, less messy characters. His return would be complicated and disruptive, and more than that, Marvel doesn't even know who they want Cyke to be anymore. Besides, a morality tale, everyone can point to and say "If you keep doing what your doing your going to end up like Scott". Having re-read the end of Uncanny up to 600 it's clear that Marvel burned ever last bridge this character had. Death was the only story left to tell.

Of course this is all true for Jean as well, and it seems she'll be back soon, so there's some cause for hope I guess. Of course she didn't die in disgrace so there's that. She's been gone so long, her coming back doesn't even seem real. Maybe that's how long Cyke will need to be gone for.

I'm going to settle in for a very long wait and keep my expectations on this front as low as possible.

[Hizashi]

Something occurred to me on the drive home today... There's really no good reason for Marvel to bring Cyke back. I don't just mean now, I mean like ever. All his stories can be told through other characters now. Simpler, less messy characters. His return would be complicated and disruptive, and more than that, Marvel doesn't even know who they want Cyke to be anymore. Besides, a morality tale, everyone can point to and say "If you keep doing what your doing your going to end up like Scott". Having re-read the end of Uncanny up to 600 it's clear that Marvel burned ever last bridge this character had. Death was the only story left to tell.

Of course this is all true for Jean as well, and it seems she'll be back soon, so there's some cause for hope I guess. Of course she didn't die in disgrace so there's that. She's been gone so long, her coming back doesn't even seem real. Maybe that's how long Cyke will need to be gone for.

I'm going to settle in for a very long wait and keep my expectations on this front as low as possible.

Boy, that's a sad thought. I disagree that there's no unique stories left to tell with the character and his death was handled very poorly, but you're right about basically everything else. I don't think that Cyke will be back soon, and I think it'll be interesting to see Jean in a world without him, since he's always been there when she returns.

And if Scott turns out to be the only X-Man in history to never be brought back, I don't know if I'll have to laugh or cry. Maybe both.