The Nightwing Romani Retcon

[Qwerty]

Okay so I got into it on twitter about the Nightwing movie announcement that they are casting a wide net to find the right actor for the job.

Someone responded with "hopefully that includes poc" which I took to mean african american (my mistake) but in me defense there was a discussion a few years back about poc being the preferred nomenclature for African American people as a whole.

My immediate knee jerk response was "But he's white" I started reading in 2003 and though I haven't read much Nightwing I did read for a couple of years and never once was the Romani part of his back ground brought up.

Does it make sense that boy who grew up in the circus would be 1/4 Romani? Absolutely but that's not the character that was created and it has been largely ignored since it was introduced/retconned.

[pansy]

Devin Grayson created Dick 'Romani' around because exotic establish.

[Alycat]

Yeah, POC as people or person of color includes non white people other than black now. Including minorities mixed with white, which is what Dick is. For a long time this was handled in a very sad and racist way that they've thankfully stopped doing. Current Nightwing has brought up his heritage more than once and it's even a plot point. So it's no longer ignored in the comic. There are many things that weren't there when a character is created but have been retconned in. That's not a big deal and Dick not being all white doesn't lessen his character any so it would be great if they don't ignore it.

[Assam]

Devin Grayson created Dick 'Romani' around because exotic establish.

It's actually incredibly offensive to describe any race as "exotic" FYI.

In regards to the OP, POC includes everyone non-Caucasian.

Also, Romani or not, there's no problem with race-bending a character in an adaptation so long as everything else about them stays true.

[Qwerty]

There absolutely is a problem with it. I'm so tired of it bro g called diversity. It's a mirage and people keep drinking the sand. As if new characters can't be created and embraced or younger poc characters can't step into the legacy of a well known hero.

[sakuyamons]

Devin Grayson created Dick 'Romani' around because exotic establish.

More like stereotypic estabilish.

I have no problem with racebending though

[Assam]

There absolutely is a problem with it. I'm so tired of it bro g called diversity. It's a mirage and people keep drinking the sand. As if new characters can't be created and embraced or younger poc characters can't step into the legacy of a well known hero.

I'm also pro-legacy character. Both at DC and Marvel, I love them across the board. Unfortunately, we're not going to see Cass Cain in the DCEU. We're not gonna see Connor Hawke be the Green Arrow in an animated movie. I'd f**king love these things, but DC is too focused on so called "iconography" to include anything but their A-list names.

That said, and using those characters I mentioned as examples, I WOULD have a problem if a character with a POC legacy was racebended, like Barabra Gordon or Oliver Queen, because that's just offensive to fans of the legacy characters. Someone like, say, Superman though? I'd have zero problem with a POC playing him, assuming he was right for the part in his performance of course.

[Qwerty]

I'm also pro-legacy character. Both at DC and Marvel, I love them across the board. Unfortunately, we're not going to see Cass Cain in the DCEU. We're not gonna see Connor Hawke be the Green Arrow in an animated movie. I'd f**king love these things, but DC is too focused on so called "iconography" to include anything but their A-list names.

That said, and using those characters I mentioned as examples, I WOULD have a problem if a character with a POC legacy was racebended, like Barabra Gordon or Oliver Queen, because that's just offensive to fans of the legacy characters. Someone like, say, Superman though? I'd have zero problem with a POC playing him, assuming he was right for the part in his performance of course.

But superman has a poc legacy character named steel. Yeah he got a shitty movie years ago but he is a better character than actual superman so I would rather see him than have them bring back kal for the justice league movie.

[Assam]

But superman has a poc legacy character named steel. Yeah he got a shitty movie years ago but he is a better character than actual superman so I would rather see him than have them bring back kal for the justice league movie.

Not the same. Steel is part of the Superman Family, but he isn't a legacy. (He has his own with Natasha) You wouldn't make a Superman movie, call it Superman, and then have it starring Steel. Like I said, DC only cares about pushing their big names, much as I disagree with this.

I DO agree with you that John Henry is a better character than Clark. He's awesome.

[prettysunshine9]

I am also for race-bending of characters like Dick. He has over 75 years of comics, games, cartoons, films and soon to be tv-series of him being white, one exception isn't going to bring the public perception of the character crashing down.

The topic of Dick's ethnicity is such a complicated topic that going 'he's white so no poc can play him' is such a reductive statement. How many times does it have to be mentioned before people accept it as canon? Grayson, Morrison, Seeley, King, Rucka etc have all made mention of it and at the very least referenced it as his backstory, or created stories based around it. I would hope that would be enough to firmly establish it as canon.

The problem emerges in the motivation for it (Grayson's retcon is based off of the exotic other trope unfortunately and needs to be understood as that) and a lack of thought and care means we don't even know how his family tree is composed. Pre-flashpoint it was at least a 1/4 to 1/2 on his father's side, but with Snyder's changes to Dick's family during the Court of Owl's stuff, he is now 1/2 on his mother's. That's pretty shoddy on the writer's part, and one of the reasons people are so torn over it.

Some Romani comic fans hate the changes, simply because the motivation for the changes and the way it has been handled is so shakily done, whilst others are more open to it, since it means they'll have a character in popular culture who is Rom, but not to the point where their first and last (and sometimes only) characterisation point is that they are Romani. And to be frank I think their opinion on what Dick's ethnicity is one of the ones that should matter most, especially around 20 years after the change was introduced.

[Qwerty]

Not the same. Steel is part of the Superman Family, but he isn't a legacy. (He has his own with Natasha) You wouldn't make a Superman movie, call it Superman, and then have it starring Steel. Like I said, DC only cares about pushing their big names, much as I disagree with this.

I DO agree with you that John Henry is a better character than Clark. He's awesome.

How is he not a legacy. He came in to replace superman when superman died. And he stuck around longer than the others who stepped in.

[Assam]

How is he not a legacy. He came in to replace superman when superman died. And he stuck around longer than the others who stepped in.

Simple. He never called himself Superman. Unlike the others you brought up, he never tried to say that he was.

[Qwerty]

Simple. He never called himself Superman. Unlike the others you brought up, he never tried to say that he was.

20170928_121657.jpg..........

[Lady Nightwing]

It's actually incredibly offensive to describe any race as "exotic" FYI.

In regards to the OP, POC includes everyone non-Caucasian.

Also, Romani or not, there's no problem with race-bending a character in an adaptation so long as everything else about them stays true.

I can't find it at the moment but Devin Grayson used the word exotic in an interview. They way she handled the whole thing was a masterclass of fetishisation and racist stereotypes. It was not good. I'm all for making the Batfamily a little more diverse though, so I'm glad Seeley and King kept the Romani retcon.

Devin Grayson also had really intense ideas about Dicks sexuality. I don't think she ever explicitly stated it but I think she shipped him with Bruce and Deathstroke. She's also responsible for him being raped by Tarantula. Her DC novel Inheritance is insanely slashy and to this day I can't believe DC published it.

In summary the Romani retcon was for all the wrong reasons and poorly executed but I think DC should stick with it.

[Assam]

20170928_121657.jpg..........

Steel is more than worthy of carrying the "S" and I would have ZERO problem if he did take on the role of Superman. HOWEVER, we're talking about adaptations here, and we're not going to get a Superman movie where John Henry is Superman, just in the Steel suit. That's all I'm saying. With the examples I used above, Batgirl and Green Arrow are names which are getting and likely will eventually get movies. And they're both mantles which, in the comics, have been held by POC for years.

Do you get what I'm trying to say?