When will get a proper Masters of Evil?

[Phoenixx9]

There are some good villains out there, but writers don't seem to understand that villains do win sometimes and that some villains are more powerful than the heroes they fight.

It seems it is more of an issue that the writers always make the heroes win more than that the villains are poor choices, underpowered or just jobbers.

[Michael Watkins]

As much as I loved Egghead's Masters of Evil (Moonstone, Tiger Shark, Radioactive Man, Beetle, Shocker, Whirlwind, and Scorpion) the best version will always be Zemo's Under Siege Masters. That was a team put together with just one goal in mind and that was to @#%$ up the Avengers period.

Baron Zemo, Moonstone, Mister Hyde, Tiger Shark, Wrecker, Piledriver, Bulldozer, Thunderball, Blackout, Absorbing Man, Black Mamba, Screaming Mimi, Fixer, Goliath, Grey Gargoyle, Titania, Yellowjacket, and Whirlwind. Pound for pound strength wise that is one of the toughest groups the Avengers have ever gone up against. This team was all brute force.

yes, they will always be the standard. I see Egghead's version as just an impromptu emissaries of evil. they lacked any kind of coordination or gameplan. I wonder what happened to Egghead's bang-maid.

[MichaelC]

Is Zemo really a Nazi? I've always had the impression that he was essentially The Red Baron, a Prussian aristocrat type rather than a Nazi.

[DJ1107]

but he isn't even that anymore. it's in his pedigree. but he's mainly just an elitist and chaotically neutral (whatever the hell that means). Norbert has never seemed to mind.

Yeah well recent years have argued otherwise. Hopeless had him in very Nazi-like fashion with Nazi-like decoration back in Undercover, Think Remender had him say something about Enslaving Sam Wilson along with the whole "Steralize the world so that the strong will spread a generation", & Spencer pretty much made him a Nazi with stockholm syndrome. Guy got Nazi blood in him & tumblr wants him & Arcade to die so we can get more riviting villains like the Freelancers

[Zero Hunter]

The sad fact is Zemo has been ruined by every writer since the Thunderbolts ended. Brubacker started it when he undid everything cool that had been done with Zemo in Thunderbolts and it just get worse everytime he is used now.

[Michael Watkins]

Yeah well recent years have argued otherwise.

maybe. but I think there's still an argument to be had. i'll explain below.

Hopeless had him in very Nazi-like fashion with Nazi-like decoration back in Undercover,

yes, it was mentioned in-story. personally, I think Zemo was just being ironic. for starters, he took the classic (and very evil-looking) Nazi garb and slapped a big 'Z' on it. I doubt that the Nazis or even neo-nazis would be cool w/ that. it's not like he had enslaved a populace or even had political goals; during that storyline. he was just an old-fashioned supervillain trying to recruit young people into villainy. they weren't saluting him or goose-stepping, in-story, or discriminating against anyone. they were preaching white supremacy. they were robbing malls. his fashion sense was certainly insensitive; no argument, there. but it seemed more for shock value than ideology. Daimon Hellstrom and Constrictor aren't Nazis; as far as I know.

Think Remender had him say something about Enslaving Sam Wilson along with the whole "Steralize the world so that the strong will spread a generation",

hmmm. I don't remember that. they were trying to sterilize the world. but so was Superia. she wasn't racist. I'm pretty sure that it was Tilda Johnson/Nightshade who created the sterilization technique, as well. I think that people confuse Zemo being a snob with being a white supremacist. like Doom, he sees himself as better than everyone else; not because of his skin color but because of his personal qualifications. it was well detailed in Zemo: Born Better.

& Spencer pretty much made him a Nazi with stockholm syndrome. Guy got Nazi blood in him & tumblr wants him & Arcade to die so we can get more riviting villains like the Freelancers

well Spencer's kind of a black and white guy. he wouldn't see any distinction between what Zemo became, a trump-level fascist, and a skinhead; going by his twitter.

[Michael Watkins]

The sad fact is Zemo has been ruined by every writer since the Thunderbolts ended. Brubacker started it when he undid everything cool that had been done with Zemo in Thunderbolts and it just get worse everytime he is used now.

there's still hope. but with so many other villains going to the good side, would it be worth it to lose Zemo?

[ed2962]

I actually didn't mind the idea of the Red Hood Gang. I sorta remember Bendis hinting at them in some issue of Wizard where he implied that a new Masters of Evil were going to be born out of Civil War I. Of course, his gang turned out to be more Marvel's Secret Society of Super Villains, but it more worked than not.

I will say this, a new version of the Masters of Evil must include Whirlwind who's been in several versions of the team.

[ed2962]

there's still hope. but with so many other villains going to the good side, would it be worth it to lose Zemo?

I haven't read it but weren't the MoE led by a "new" Crimson Cowl for a while in the Thunderbolts? Could that character return?

[Michael Watkins]

I haven't read it but weren't the MoE led by a "new" Crimson Cowl for a while in the Thunderbolts? Could that character return?

she was killed by her daughter, irrc. apparently she had a daughter by the Mandarin (and suddenly strangely looked like Condoleeza Rice). it was a really weird story. I've been suggesting that Lucia von Bardas become the new Crimson Cowl. she has financed villains before.

[Michael Watkins]

I actually didn't mind the idea of the Red Hood Gang. I sorta remember Bendis hinting at them in some issue of Wizard where he implied that a new Masters of Evil were going to be born out of Civil War I. Of course, his gang turned out to be more Marvel's Secret Society of Super Villains, but it more worked than not.

yeah, I never listen to Bendis. but I don't see the two concepts as being mutually exclusive. I think the Hood should have his costumed villain union. Hobgoblin can have his scabs/strikebreakers/knockoffs. Grim Reaper can have his Lethal Legion. and someone else can start up the Masters of Evil. the more the merrier, imo.

I will say this, a new version of the Masters of Evil must include Whirlwind who's been in several versions of the team.

unofficially, at least once. I'm for more Dave Cannon. I'd rather see him than Cyclone, again.

[Michael Watkins]

a question to the thread: if you had a maximum of 10 spots to fill, who would be in your preferred Masters of Evil? please specify a leader/organizer.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Michael Watkins]

[DJ1107]

1. Baron Zemo (leader obviously)
2. Alex Wilder
3. Purple Man
4. Psycho-Man
5. Tiger Shark
6. Abomination
7. Toxie Doxie
8. Superia
9. Sabretooth reverted back to his old self.
10. Stilts Man

I kinda wanted an iteration closer to The Army of Evil but this would probably be my top 10

[Michael Watkins]

1. Baron Zemo (leader obviously)
2. Alex Wilder
3. Purple Man
4. Psycho-Man
5. Tiger Shark
6. Abomination
7. Toxie Doxie
8. Superia
9. Sabretooth reverted back to his old self.
10. Stilts Man

I kinda wanted an iteration closer to The Army of Evil but this would probably be my top 10

that's why I limited you to 10; makes you think. who is Stilts Man? love the addition of June Covington and Sabretooth (he's often in my roster). Psycho-Man's an odd choice.