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  1. #1
    opalrobertson
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    Default What are the darkest moments in Marvel and DC?

    The Joker had kidnapped dozens of infants and was holding them in the basement of the police station. Sarah Essen Gordon (Comissioner Gordon’s wife) is the first to reach Joker's position. Although she has him at gunpoint, the Joker tosses an infant at her, and Sarah instinctively drops her weapon to catch the child, saving it from injury. The Joker then shoots her in the head and leaves the infants with her lifeless body, sitting in a pool of her blood.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    For me it hardly does get more dark than Identity Crisis on the DC and PunisherMAX on the Marvel side of things. Now that I think about it Jonah Hex (Palmiotti/Gray), Daredevil Born Again and X-Men God Loves Man Kills went all the way, too.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Price increases.

  4. #4
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    For a lowly spam thread about fireplaces, it has potential.

    For me it's Civil War. That's the story that showed Marvel and DC that the money these days is in events, and their comics have been getting more unreadable ever since.

  5. #5
    Boisterously Confused
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    Perhaps not the darkest, but the death of Gwen Stacy was the beginning of the long, shocking march. It was particularly bleak (as originally presented) in the ambiguity of whether it was The Green Goblin or Spiderman that actually killed her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    For a lowly spam thread about fireplaces, it has potential.

    For me it's Civil War. That's the story that showed Marvel and DC that the money these days is in events, and their comics have been getting more unreadable ever since.
    Personally, I think they tumbled to that one all the way back at Crisis on Infinite Earths. They've been at it ever since.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Personally, I think they tumbled to that one all the way back at Crisis on Infinite Earths. They've been at it ever since.
    The events from days of yore weren't like Civil war, with it's multiple tie-in mini series.

    Crisis was 12 issues, and no real crossovers except for one issue of a series here and there.
    The original Secret Wars and its sequel were similar.

    Civil War? Over 100 issues.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Brian Cronin's Avatar
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    There were surely less tie-ins in the old days, but come on, Crisis had literally 49 tie-in issues on top of the 12-issue main series (for a total of 61 issues). Less than Civil War, of course, but not to an absurd degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Cronin View Post
    There were surely less tie-ins in the old days, but come on, Crisis had literally 49 tie-in issues on top of the 12-issue main series (for a total of 61 issues). Less than Civil War, of course, but not to an absurd degree.
    Crisis was literally ending the continuity for the first time officially. It included nearly every character that had ever been introduced.

    Civil War was a conflict between Cap and Iron Man where the main story felt incomplete without a good chunk of the tie ins.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    It was pretty dark for Swamp Thing and the DC world during Alan Moore's American Gothic story



    Swamp Thing explains the wisdom of the Parliament of Trees to Primordial Darkness

    Last edited by Old Man Ollie 1962; 09-29-2017 at 04:18 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Cronin View Post
    There were surely less tie-ins in the old days, but come on, Crisis had literally 49 tie-in issues on top of the 12-issue main series (for a total of 61 issues). Less than Civil War, of course, but not to an absurd degree.
    That is... a lot more than I thought.

    Does that include the books with a random red-skies panel though, or where there's just a brief reference to to the crossover?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Perhaps not the darkest, but the death of Gwen Stacy was the beginning of the long, shocking march. It was particularly bleak (as originally presented) in the ambiguity of whether it was The Green Goblin or Spiderman that actually killed her.

    Personally, I think they tumbled to that one all the way back at Crisis on Infinite Earths. They've been at it ever since.
    I'd include Secret Wars and Secret Wars II with Crisis as the birth of event comics.

    But Civil War is when Marvel lost all sense of perspective.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Clone Thor murdering Bill Foster in CW1. The racist implications behind it.

  13. #13
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    In my opinion, NOTHING gets darker than this, for EITHER company:

    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #14
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    That is... a lot more than I thought.

    Does that include the books with a random red-skies panel though, or where there's just a brief reference to to the crossover?
    It varied. Everything from light touches to ongoing plots taking a break while character X gets snatched. But I see the point that you and Knight of the Lake are making.

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Civil War was a conflict between Cap and Iron Man where the main story felt incomplete without a good chunk of the tie ins.
    You could read COIE without the tie-ins. The follow up, Legends was closer to that because if you didn't buy the Superman titles at the time (all of them) you were missing some important stuff about Darkseid's schemes.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    It varied. Everything from light touches to ongoing plots taking a break while character X gets snatched. But I see the point that you and Knight of the Lake are making.

    You could read COIE without the tie-ins. The follow up, Legends was closer to that because if you didn't buy the Superman titles at the time (all of them) you were missing some important stuff about Darkseid's schemes.
    Yeah, and Legend at least was a fun story... Unlike Millenium, which had countless tie-ins and was a horrible mess of a story with the unreadable "New Guardians" series as its pay off. Millenium was 12 issues and 39 tie-ins.

    And every series that tied in revealed some kind of traitor. I had reveal fatigue.
    Last edited by SquirrelMan; 09-30-2017 at 08:03 AM.

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