Do you agree with Kaine's viewpoint or Ben's viewpoint?

[theoneandonly]

Kaine and Ben seem to have thrashed out their issues in the latest issue of scarlet spider and Kaine seems to be feeling hard done and seems to think that Ben is the favoured one once again while woe is me conveniently forgetting all the crap Ben gas gone through and which he himself contributed to in some measure and yet Ben didn't give up on him and always tried to redeem him and now that the shoe is on the other foot he tries to kill him instead of trying to reach out to him as he must be able to understand his trauma. Whose viewpoint do you find yourself agreeing with or do you feel that both of them are right. in their viewpoints to a certain extent and cannot be blamed for their views or are both of them full of it?

[Huntsman Spider]

Frankly, there are no winners in this argument. Both of them have suffered a lot, both of them have understandable reasoning for acting the way they did even if it wasn't the "right" thing to do, and both of them have been majorly screwed over throughout the course of their respective existences. The issue for Kaine is that Ben was always the one he really measured himself against, and he always came up short in his own eyes, so Ben crossing the line into outright omnicidal villainy the way he did in The Clone Conspiracy shattered Kaine's image of Ben and gave him a valid excuse to hate Ben and want him dead. The issue for Ben, on the other hand, was that he was torturously resurrected again and again as a sick science project and his soul was basically ripped apart by those repeated resurrections, driving him insane, and for that, he would also deserve sympathy even if his ultimate actions in The Clone Conspiracy crossed a terrible line. In my eyes, they're both suffering from long-unresolved traumas and emotional/mental scars and that has to be dealt with before they can finally move on from their lifelong animosity and better themselves.

[Michael Watkins]

please kill Kaine.

[Aioros22]

Neither are wrong. Only reason Ben comes out of it all perhaps a bit better is because he was more, let`say understanding on what Kaine made him go throught, than how Kaine dealt the recent events.

It`s totally in character for him to feel Ben is favored by the fates once again, he`s always said that of his brother, how he always kept going despite it all. Not that Kaine is unlucky per-se, he`s died a few times on his own but Death taking an interest on Ben is sure Cosmic love

[Pav]

It's funny: in the past, Kaine's view was that Ben had to be tormented and punished because Kaine wanted to protect Peter, who he thought was his clone brother living the dream life! (Of course, he was probably pretty addled by the clone degeneration back then.)

Now Kaine knows that Ben is actually his clone-brother, but because of Clone Conspiracy, he thinks/thought Ben deserved death!

Honestly? I think at this point it's just easy for Kaine to hate Ben. It's like his default state.

-Pav, who wonders how much it can change...

[Aioros22]

His relationship with Ben is nothing less than complex!

Out of topic but only recently I decide to check out Ultimate Spiderman and I was shocked to find the scarlet spider with references to both kaine and Ben`s characters. Kaine's ressurgence came first but it is always a blast to see a "thrownaway" character keep making appearances ( hello Flash!) and a comeback in the comic line decades later. Two of my favorite characters had to go through the same thing.

[Huntsman Spider]

It's funny: in the past, Kaine's view was that Ben had to be tormented and punished because Kaine wanted to protect Peter, who he thought was his clone brother living the dream life! (Of course, he was probably pretty addled by the clone degeneration back then.)

Now Kaine knows that Ben is actually his clone-brother, but because of Clone Conspiracy, he thinks/thought Ben deserved death!

Honestly? I think at this point it's just easy for Kaine to hate Ben. It's like his default state.

-Pav, who wonders how much it can change...

Maybe, but at the same time, before Ben came back, Kaine felt guilty about hating him and wished he could make it up to him somehow, to the point he felt unworthy of being called the Scarlet Spider because that was Ben's name and he saw Ben as a better man than him. It was the events of The Clone Conspiracy that shattered his view of Ben as a good man, or at least a better man than him, and so of course he'd revert to hating Ben because this time he had good reason, after the lines Ben crossed, both in trying to kill Peter and then trying to kill the entire world so that he could "reanimate" it and create a new, "deathless" world. Granted, Ben was completely messed-up mentally (and spiritually, it turns out) from what the Jackal had done to him, but attempted genocide is still a hard thing to walk back, even in comics, so it's understandable that Kaine would be out for Ben's blood, because Ben basically betrayed everything Kaine believed about him and tried to live up to.

His relationship with Ben is nothing less than complex!

Out of topic but only recently I decide to check out Ultimate Spiderman and I was shocked to find the scarlet spider with references to both kaine and Ben`s characters. Kaine's ressurgence came first but it is always a blast to see a "thrownaway" character keep making appearances ( hello Flash!) and a comeback in the comic line decades later. Two of my favorite characters had to go through the same thing.

Yeah, the Ultimate Animated Scarlet Spider is Kaine in all but name, but with that name being Ben's and his origin being somewhat different, though they did crib from the Ultimate Spider-Man comics by having Doctor Octopus be responsible for the Scarlet Spider's existence like how he was responsible for the Ultimate Clone Saga.