Do you have a problem with retroactive diversity for DC's heroes?

[Johnny]

Pretty much.

Long story short, it's kinda lazy.

Damn, that was a great read.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm not 100% against the idea but I'm not 100% for it either.

I'm not against it because I see Marvel and DC as closer to folklore that can be changed to suit the whims/needs of the next generation versus something like Harry Potter/Walking Dead/most anime's/creator owned comics etc so I'd more careful about changing it.

I'm not for it because I think it's a half-measure for creating true diversity and doesn't solve every problem a character would have. Iron Fist has a lot more problems than just being a white savoir trope so just making him east asian/mixed etc wouldn't really fix those so you need think more about that. If you reboot Iron Fist and thats all you do thats a huge oppurtunity wasted (that goes for any character really)

Right now im leaning towards creating new characters and just moving forward with every character (which is why i prefer grayson to nightwing) so I'd support those over just a race-swap (live action is different).

[DrNewGod]

It depends. Jon Stewart, Jaimie Reyes, and Khalid Ben-Hassin make sense (easily transferable abilities). Cases like Kyle Rayner made some sense because they were filling in backstory and didn't really turn the character upside down to do it. Cases like Thor (for me) don't work because Thor's had plenty of opportunity to get de-worthy-ied, Jane Foster was long-ago established as lacking the courage to be Asgardian, and they trash-heaped all that to force a "mystery" out of the effort to diversify (Sif or Brunhilda, for example, might have been easier to take).

[Herowatcher]

For years, DC made an effort to introduce legacy characters that were not simply more straight white American men. Mr. Terrific and Blue Beetle are two of the more successful additions. The Dr. Fate established during the New 52 was an Egyptian-American medical student named Khalid Nassour.
However, DC has also retroactively changed the ethnicity of older characters to give them more diverse backgrounds.

Kyle Rayner was originally a black haired white guy of Irish decent. His surname, Rayner, means "warrior" in some old Irish dialect if I am remembering right. After Ron Marz had moved on and Judd Winnick came on board, he finally resolved the dangling plotline of Kyle's long lost father, who Marz had established as a spy. Winnick, who had always assumed Kyle was latino because of his black hair, established that Kyle's father was a Mexican-American CIA agent named Gabriel Vasquez and that "Aaron Rayner" was merely an alias. More recently, it had been established that Hal Jordan's mother is Jewish, which makes Hal a Jew because it is passed down on the mother's side. I, on the other hand, am not Jewish because my father is a Jew, but my mother is not. The Nazis would have tried to kill us all regardless, but I digress.

Do any fans have a problem with this kind of retroactive ethnic diversification or do you find it pandering? Would you be upset if Iris West was now depicted as being of mixed ethnicity like she is in TV & movies? Or if Lois Lane's mother were to be revealed as being Vietnamese? Or Aquaman's father was revealed to be of Polynesian decent?

Personally, I don't necessarily have a problem with any of this. It doesn't fundamentally change who the characters are, but opens them up to new storytelling possibilities and audiences that previously might not have been interested.

What do you think?

Yes, for the most part, I have a problem with it.
There are original diverse characters out there that I like....Skyrocket, Vibe, Owl Woman, Striker Z, Bumblebee, Mal Duncan, Vixen, Equinox, Katana and Ragman.

Instead of splitting the fan base, why isn't DC having its writers make a real effort into integrating them into books? Yes, they're not the Trinity or other popular heroes, but they'll never get to that, in some degree, if they're not constantly used. Seriously, the Global Guardians (not the JLI) are as diverse as you're ever going to get. If DC really cared about being inclusive this is the comic to make happen.

[CRaymond]

I for one enjoy that the consensus among television content creators is to make Martian Manhunter a black man when he chooses a human form. I wish there was a way for him to remain in black man "form" when he's doing to superheroics. I realize that this is shapeshifting, and not a character with an authentic black experience, but I like that it brings a black face into a seat at the table when the heaviest of hitters are called.

Is it a symptom of my privilege, liberal guilt, or preference for DC Comics outside of the books, that I wish the only Wally was black Wally?

[TheSupernaut]

I for one enjoy that the consensus among television content creators is to make Martian Manhunter a black man when he chooses a human form. I wish there was a way for him to remain in black man "form" when he's doing to superheroics. I realize that this is shapeshifting, and not a character with an authentic black experience, but I like that it brings a black face into a seat at the table when the heaviest of hitters are called.

Is it a symptom of my privilege, liberal guilt, or preference for DC Comics outside of the books, that I wish the only Wally was black Wally?

Well...yes.

[TheSupernaut]

And for me it depends on the character and how attached I am to their look. Like Wally West for instance. The red hair and green eyes just suits him. I'd be equally annoyed at them bringing him back with blond or brunette hair.

[CRaymond]

I'd be equally annoyed at them bringing him back with blond or brunette hair.

Are you similarly annoyed when Val Kilmer took the role of Batman from Michael Keaton? Kilmer's Batman was blond. Or when Clooney did from Kilmer? Clooney's film had his distinctive hairstyle. Or When Christian Bale showed up with longer hair? Are you frustrated that Ben Affleck is Batman so soon after the Nolan trilogy?

[TheSupernaut]

Are you similarly annoyed when Val Kilmer took the role of Batman from Michael Keaton? Kilmer's Batman was blond. Or when Clooney did from Kilmer? Clooney's film had his distinctive hairstyle. Or When Christian Bale showed up with longer hair? Are you frustrated that Ben Affleck is Batman so soon after the Nolan trilogy?

For most of those yeah. But changing an actor and changing a characters ethnicity aren't the same thing. And if you're trying to pull the race card, I'm African American myself so nice try. The fact of the matter is that nuWally wasn't conceived to succeed. Quite the opposite. He was mostly just an insult to Wallys longtime fans.

[Lee]

And for me it depends on the character and how attached I am to their look. Like Wally West for instance. The red hair and green eyes just suits him. I'd be equally annoyed at them bringing him back with blond or brunette hair.

Green eyes was a retcon. He originally had blue eyes. They changed his appearance.

[Kyer]

Green eyes was a retcon. He originally had blue eyes. They changed his appearance.

I seem to recall the 'blue eyes' was a problem do to how they printed colors back then. Probably a post by someone in one of the speedster threads.

Batman was blond? ((Not a Batman fan. Can you tell?)) That was stupid. Should have been easy enough to cover up blond hairs with an ebony hair dye.

I swear....as much as I dislike Asian!Barry (as opposed to an Asian speedster) it is movie "Aquaman" who is really making me wince. What in the wide world of aquatics was the reason they gave for dragging one of my favorite characters through the mud? (Possibly literally, because....gag me.)

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

For most of those yeah. But changing an actor and changing a characters ethnicity aren't the same thing. And if you're trying to pull the race card, I'm African American myself so nice try. The fact of the matter is that nuWally wasn't conceived to succeed. Quite the opposite. He was mostly just an insult to Wallys longtime fans.

One that proved to backfire on them in a big way.

Its a shame because I think it would have been truly incredible for DC to introduce the first ever African American Kid Flash. Unfortunately they fumbled it by trying to make him into an all out replacement for a character who was much beloved by the fans. And even now that he isn't technically a replacement for OG Wally, he himself as a character is tainted by that. IMO, it would have been just straight up more appealing if DC had decided to create him as an all new original character, completely unrelated to the Wests or the Allens or the Garricks.

As for the larger issue of race bending, Joe Quesada actually said something at NYCC that I completely agreed with. He basically said that diversity is only really true when its organic and comes from the story as opposed to attempting to fill minority "quotas." And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why DC's practice of changing established characters' race is offensive, not just from the perspective of fans of the established character as they were but also even to the members of the minority they're trying to appeal to. Think about it. We all know that the true thought process behind NuWally wasn't an earnest attempt at conveying the African American perspective. It was the folks at DC thinking to themselves "quick, what's the easiest way to look like we're not racists?"

But race bending is in itself, racist. It assumes that true diversity can be achieved by simply slapping a new skin color on a previously white character and calling it a day. That's not true at all. Black Panther, John Stewart, Steel, Static, Jaime Reyes, etc. were all true and meaningful attempts at diversity because they attempted to bring previously unheard perspectives to the table. In the case of NuWally, it was basically the writers saying "oh well, if Wally were a black guy, he'd obviously be a hood, right?" in probably the most disgustingly stereotypical way possible. It was as misguided as that famous issue from the 70s where Lois Lane "tries on" being a black woman.

[El_Gato]

I seem to recall the 'blue eyes' was a problem do to how they printed colors back then. Probably a post by someone in one of the speedster threads.

Batman was blond? ((Not a Batman fan. Can you tell?)) That was stupid. Should have been easy enough to cover up blond hairs with an ebony hair dye.

I swear....as much as I dislike Asian!Barry (as opposed to an Asian speedster) it is movie "Aquaman" who is really making me wince. What in the wide world of aquatics was the reason they gave for dragging one of my favorite characters through the mud? (Possibly literally, because....gag me.)

Ummm Ezra Miller isn't Asian, he's White. As for Aquaman, well movie Aquaman is about to make the character cool to the GA and not a running gag on Family Guy or Robot Chicken. Guarantee you there will be a lot of new Aquaman fans once JL premiers!

[Jim Kelly]

From IMDb--

Joseph Jason Namakaeha Momoa was born on August 1, 1979 in Honolulu, Hawaii. He is the son of Coni (Lemke), a photographer, and Joseph Momoa, a painter. His father is of Hawaiian descent and his mother, who is from Iowa, is of mostly German ancestry. Jason was raised in Norwalk, Iowa by his mother.

The comic books have given several different origin stories for Aquaman, but most seem to have him as the son of Tom Curry, an American, and an Atlantean woman.

Meanwhile, you have several British actors playing American super-heroes on screen.

[TheSupernaut]

Eh I don't know, for me DCEU Aquaman works. As someone who didn't grow up royalty, him just seeing like a regular guy makes sense. I'm willing to give him the chance I gave DCEU Superman to "grow into" the role.