Zodiac Signs of the X-Men

[Ricochet Rita]

Let me start by saying a few things:

I was deep into astrology in my teens. I'd not only read about it, but I'd also learned how to draw up natal charts of friends and family and studied them and practised by telling them what their natal charts say about them. It was back in the days before there was the internet, so armed with an ephemeris and a Book of Houses, and information of their date, time and place of birth, I would do the math by hand and work out the positions of the sun, moon, Mercury and all the rest of the planets and draw up a natal chart. I would then study the natal chart and when I felt I was ready, tell the friend whose chart I'd prepared and studied what I had gleaned from it.

So, in short, I was REALLY into astrology.

But I'm also a critic and believe that astrology is a pseudoscience. However, we can assume, for this discussion, that in Marvel's 616 universe, astrology is real, so here're my contributions to this game:

But first, some basic concepts I'd like to introduce that astrologers use all the time:

1) The Sun
2) The Moon
3) The Ascendant

The Sun

When someone says he is a Capricorn because he was born between Dec 21 and Jan 19, what is really happening is that the sun was in Capricorn when he was born. The sun is one's EGO, and SENSE OF IDENTITY. It is his CORE. Therefore, the position of the sun plays a huge part of a person's character, but it does not determine all of what he is. Another important component of a person's character is the moon.

The Moon

The moon governs one's feelings and emotions. For example, say a person's moon is in Taurus. Taurus, being an Earth sign, is one of practicality, pragmatism, security, reliability. Taurus is also a sensual sign, and to do with being tactile. So his feelings would tend towards being more down to earth and practical. He also won't be very emotional.

The Ascendant

The Ascendant is the sign that is rising on the horizon when one is born. This govern's one outward behavior. It is his mask. People tend not to display their true self to strangers in a party or other casual social situations. Instead, they put on a mask that is comfortable for them to wear but yet, not their true identity or feelings. Someone with say, Gemini as the Ascendant would be one that would give others the first impression of being talkative and intellectual, with an engaging personality. But these traits would only be surface-level.

Now let's put these three together (though I'm pretty rusty):

Suppose we have someone born with the sun in Sagittarius, moon in Libra, and with Capricorn as the Ascendant. On first meeting him, he would seem like a calm and collected person with a measured demeanour. He would not talk much. This is the Capricorn that you see when you first meet him.

But once you've gotten to know him better as a person, you'd find that he has a magnanimous personality, with a philosophical outlook on life. He is also restless and likes to travel and see and learn more and imbibing and learning from other cultures. This is the sun in Sagittarius at work.

If you're part of his nuclear family, like his wife or his child, or very close to him such that he lets his hair down and lets you know how he feels about things that are important to him, you'll see the moon in Libra in action. The things that are important to him on an emotional level are peacefulness and harmony and will endeavour to work out harmonious relations among people close to him.

In short, a person isn't governed by just one sign all the time in all situations. Mercury holds sway over the mind and the intellect, Venus influences one's love life, and so on.

Take Gambit, for example. His core personality seems very much like Gemini or Libra to me. These two are Air signs. He is clever and likes to show it. His wittiness seems like a mask, so he might have Gemini as the Ascendant, with the sun in Libra, due to his love for beauty. However, he is passionate with the women he loves, especially with Rogue. So his moon sign is likely one of the Water signs, with Scorpio being the likeliest.

I hope this takes the game to a higher level, so that we don't just assign just one sign to a character and have him be governed by just that sign's attributes alone. A character can be different in different situations and with different people.

Have fun!

This reminds me of a time when we had a similar discussion in terms of Id/Ego/Superego:

http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post2620433

[Starrius]

[QUOTE=Ricochet Rita;3148154]This reminds me of a time when we had a similar discussion in terms of Id/Ego/Superego:

http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post2620433[/QUOgaTE]

I am still deep in Astrology, but I switched to Sidereal Zodiac after reading books by Cyril Fagan and a book on Babylonian Star-lore.
The zodiac was originally Sidereal (star-based) and not Tropical (season-based).
The Babylonians came up with 12 sign zodiac to go with their 12 month schematic calendar, and it was sidereal.
The tropical zodiac came about as the result of Ptolemy's writings in the Tetrabiblos.
When Ptolemy wrote the Tetrabiblos, the vernal point was at the beginning of Aries.
The tropical zodiac was based on the Northern Hemisphere seasons and ignored the Southern Hemisphere.
The Babylonian Astrologers set the vernal point in 8 degrees Aries and 10 degrees Aries, and Hellenistic Astrologers were using these vernal points too. Vettius Valens used the vernal point in 8 degrees Aries.
Hipparchus was said to discovered precession, and he recommended the vernal point be set at 0 degrees Aries, but it was rejected by the Hellenistic astrologers.

In Tropical Zodiac:

Vernal Equinox - Sun in 0'00 degrees Aries
Summer Solstice - Sun in 0'00 degrees Cancer
Autumnal Equinox - Sun in 0'00 degrees Libra
Winter Solstice - Sun in 0'00 degrees Capricorn

I put very little emphasis on zodiac sign placements.
I focus mainly on the aspects which are the geometrical relationships between the bodies and angles.
I am into planetary geometry.

Ptolemaic Aspects:
conjunction - 0 degrees
opposition - 180 degrees
trine - 120 degrees
square - 90 degrees
sextile - 60 degrees



and they correlate with harmonics - divisions of the circle

conjunction - 1st harmonic x 360 = 360
opposition - 2nd harmonic x 180 = 360
trine - 3rd harmonic x 120 = 360
square - 4th harmonic x 90 =360
sextile - 6th harmonic x 60 = 360

I also include Declination (Equatorial Latitude) which includes the aspects of parallel and contraparallel
I also include Right Ascension (Equatorial Longitude)
ascendant/rising,descendant/setting,imum coeli/anti-culminating,midheaven/culminating) at the same time at any time of the day.
Objects that are conjunct or oppose in Right Ascension are parans.
Parans were used before regular aspects.

Astrologers mainly use Ecliptic Longitude (the Zodiac is in that coordinate)
Astronomers use not only that coordinate but also Declination and Right Ascension.
The astronomers observe stars in Declination and Right Ascension.

[Confuzzled]

I am still deep in Astrology, but I switched to Sidereal Zodiac after reading books by Cyril Fagan and a book on Babylonian Star-lore.

Starrius, seeing your signature, I have to ask even if it is slightly OT for this thread. What are Peter and MJ's sun signs respectively if you had to guess? A zodiac layman like me guessed Cancer for Pete and Scorpio for MJ going by similarities to personal experiences. But I could be self-projecting a little (which in fairness is the function of Spider-Man as a character). So I'm curious regarding the interpretation by a fan who is better versed in astrology.

[Wiccan]

Jean is canonically a Pisces, and I think it describes her perfectly.


Strengths: Compassionate, artistic, intuitive, gentle, wise, musical

Weaknesses: Fearful, overly trusting, sad, desire to escape reality, can be a victim or a martyr

Pisces likes: Being alone, sleeping, music, romance, visual media, swimming, spiritual themes

Pisces dislikes: Know-it-all, being criticized, the past coming back to haunt, cruelty of any kind

Pisces are very friendly, so they often find themselves in a company of very different people. Pisces are selfless, they are always willing to help others, without hoping to get anything back.

Pisces is a Water sign and as such this zodiac sign is characterized by empathy and expressed emotional capacity.

Their ruling planet is Neptune, so Pisces are more intuitive than others and have an artistic talent. Neptune is connected to music, so Pisces reveal music preferences in the earliest stages of life. They are generous, compassionate and extremely faithful and caring.

People born under the Pisces sign have an intuitive understanding of the life cycle and thus achieve the best emotional relationship with other beings.

Pisces-born are known by their wisdom, but under the influence of Uranus, Pisces sometimes can take the role of a martyr, in order to catch the attention. Pisces are never judgmental and always forgiving. They are also known to be most tolerant of all the zodiac signs.

Posted by Havok83 some time ago on Jean's thread. Another description that also applies 100% to Jean:

Pisces adapt well to their circumstances, both good and bad. They are generous, amiable, positive natured people with a deep sense of kindness and compassion. Pisces are highly tuned in to everything around them including the feelings of others. Pisces are socially popular because of their easygoing and likable manner

[Confuzzled]

Pisces are never judgmental

I guess Teen Jean* is an AU Jean after all then

*In fairness to her I know a couple of Pisceans and when it comes to them at least, the quoted statement is kind of bs

[Havok83]

Cyclops definitely reads like a Capricorn

[Wolfsbane]

Storm is a Scorpio 100%

[From The Shadows]

Betsy was given a Taurus Birthday and it actually fits her.

GEMINI:
-Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler

Hmm... they never seemed like Gemini's to me.

Scorpio is not only about sex. Gambit had a lot of deep moments. Most with Rogue.
Also his selfloathing are much more closer to Scorpio then to Libra.

To me neither fit. Libra's are supposed to be polite and friendly while Gambit is more of a loner and can have a bit of a tude and Scorpio though loners are not really outgoing in an obvious way . To me a Sagittarius is perfect. They are adventurous/action oriented, spontaneous and the men are known to be womanizers and march to the beat to their own drummer.

This is much fun. I'll read it later more slowly.

I'd just want to say that Nightcrawler (like it or not) is Scorpio or Sagittarius, for he was born (or at least he was picked up from the river) in November. It's canon, from his miniseries 'The Winding Way', where November page is shown in a calendar while he's celebrating his birthday.

I don't know if there's another X-Man whose birth is exactly stated.

Y'know I think Dave is another who just wanted to give his fave his b-day. And let's remember Dave and Chris had different ideas about Kurt and never wanted Kurt to be religious so Kurt as his alter-ego doesn't really work to me. Kurt seems a lot more like a Pisces, dreamy, spiritual, idealistic, compassionate, sensual, altruistic but he can have a cynical streak when times get dark and close himself off from others too for the same reasons. That's very Pisces. At worst Scorpio can be moody, manipulative, secretive and anti-social and competitive to the extreme and Kurt is none of those things. Kurt is also too trusting. This is more Wolverine. Not to knock Scorpios I mean Logan has the good Scorpio traits as well like supporting the underdog and though slow to open up they become very loyal to those they care about and very passionate and protective. Though, Kurt can be a Scorpion eagle where he learns to trust and let go as opposed to an afflicted one like Logan.

Nightcrawler has a birthday in early November (Nov. 11 I believe), according to comic cannon and Dave Cockrum, which makes him a Scorpio.

I personally don't believe in horoscopes, so what it says about Scorpios matters not to me, and it doesn't really fit him either. (My sign doesn't match my personality at all.)

You could be on a cusp like me and there are other aspects to your chart than just your sun sign.

No way Storm is a Cancer. Claremont gave her his birthday, which would make her a Sagittarius, and that actually makes far more sense for her character. And recently he said Kitty was his alter ego. It was on his facebook.

Really, Storm has got to be the most un-Sagittarius person ever to me. I think Claremont just wanted to give his fave his birthday. Storm always screamed a Virgo to me.

The username got cut off... Someone said this, I'm not going back through all these posts and searching for who, lol "I see why you would but I see Emma as a very solar narcissistic. Scorpios tend to be more mysterious and discrete. Emma shows her sexuality and ego. She's out there like Madonna who is also a Leo."

Yep, and Samantha from Sex and the City is portrayed by Leo Kim Catral who says she's very similar to Samantha.

Why? Riding the winds is her mutant power, but her spiritual essence is communion with Gaia. I think she fits much better with a Mother Earth sign.

Totally agree. A lot of people seem to unfairly judge earth signs as stiff and dull. That's because they seem to have an over-inflated sense of responsibility, are worriers and are hard workers but they can have fun.

Yeah, nature goddess = Earth sign seems kind of obvious to me. I also know a few Taureans and Librans (both Earth signs) who give me strong OM vibes.

Actually, Libras are air signs. ;-)

I'm doing most everyone who has ever been an X-man and not just my favorites.

Here are my choices:

Nightcrawler - Pisces
Shadowcat - Cancer
Wolverine - Scorpio
Colossus - Aries
Storm - Virgo
Cyclops - Capricorn
Gambit - Sagittarius
Psylocke - Taurus
Rogue - Aries (perhaps Leo)
Emma Frost - Leo
Archangel - Libra
Iceman - Cancer
Jean Grey - Libra
Beast - Aquarius
Jubilee - Gemini
Bishop - Virgo
X-23 - Taurus
Dazzler - Libra
Havok - Gemini
Polaris - Aries
Magik - Scorpio
Northstar - Scorpio
Cannonball - Libra
Banshee - He's a tough one... he is friendly but doesn't have the indecisiveness of a Libra or the weirdness of an Aquarius. He's tough but doesn't have the ego of a Leo or an Aries, not moody enough to be water. Maybe earth? Though they are really serious... and Banshee is jolly, though, probably coming from mostly an Irish stereo-type ,uh, someone else want to give this one a shot? Maybe he's on a cusp.

Feel free to disagree. Any thoughts on this list?

[yogaflame]

Storm, a Virgo? Preposterous!

[From The Shadows]

Storm, a Virgo? Preposterous!

Haha! I knew that was coming. She definitely has fire traits but to me she is too responsible and reflective to be a care-free sagittarius at her core. Maybe a Leo/Virgo cusp. Which make sense since she reminds me of my Leo/Virgo friend.

[Havok83]

Jean is canonically a Pisces which makes sense. I dont see her as a Libra, nor Warren either.

[From The Shadows]

Jean is canonically a Pisces which makes sense. I dont see her as a Libra, nor Warren either.

I don't think its too odd. I picked Libra for Jean because she is friendly, kind, idealistic, romantic, and a peace-maker but when pushed can explode into anger and they draw many admirers I mean we had Logan, Scott and Warren vying for her affections and me that's fits Jean to a T. But Pisces and Libras have similar traits so I guess I can see it. Warren has many Libra traits, charmer, looks like he has money, lol, and even the poorest Libra's can make themselves up and they are friendly and that's how I see Warren. Libra's find excessive rudeness and crudeness grating and Logan has really pissed Warren off since they first met.

[Havok83]

I don't think its too odd. I picked Libra for Jean because she is friendly, kind, idealistic, romantic, and a peace-maker but when pushed can explode into anger and they draw many admirers I mean we had Logan, Scott and Warren vying for her affections and me that's fits Jean to a T. But Pisces and Libras have similar traits so I guess I can see it. Warren has many Libra traits, charmer, looks like he has money, lol, and even the poorest Libra's can make themselves up and they are friendly and that's how I see Warren. Libra's find excessive rudeness and crudeness grating and Logan has really pissed Warren off since they first met.

i dont see Warren having the peace maker quality which I would say is one of the more defining aspects of Libras

[yogaflame]

Jean's too emotional to be an air sign. I think Pisces works for her, and is canon. It's important to remember the people you know in real life are more than just their sun signs. All the positions in their natal charts will determine the person you know. The sun signs are the big picture take.

[From The Shadows]

Woops! I meant Leo/Virgo cusp not Libra/Virgo . I edited it.