Isn't it time for EXCALIBUR to come back already?

[Factor]

Something I did for fun:

My Excalibur revival:

[RLAAMJR.]

I prefer not because it will not sell well. Let's admit it that only two xbooks with the word xmen on the title are the ones that last longer so why not jist have some of them become mainmmembers of those two main xbooks.

I wanna see Captain Britain, Cerise and Kylun the most.


Idont eant Meggan and Captain Britain in one xmen book. Separate them for a change.

[Agatha's Ghost]

This team must return. They were the only X-Men equipped to deal with magikal phenomenon and weird science. All other mutant stories are boring tales of woe (oppression) and/or senseless violence.

[Agatha's Ghost]

I believe that the last true Excalibur story was when Uncanny X-Force traveled to Otherworld to confront the Goat (aka Jamie Braddock).

[Sundowhn]

I believe that the last true Excalibur story was when Uncanny X-Force traveled to Otherworld to confront the Goat (aka Jamie Braddock).

Yep. The art was pretty atrocious, but I liked the story.

[Sundowhn]

Okay, but was it successful due to the cast, or was it the Claremont/Davis combo?



I'd be fine with that cast and crew coming back!

I'd think it was a combination of both, to be honest. Excal had some bad arcs with writers who just didn't get the concept, but it was an overall good read.

The cast was a moment in time thing, I believe.

Kurt and Kitty had been rejected in favor of introducing Gambit and Jubilee, for that late 80's edgy flavor, so they were in limbo, though had both been relatively popular X-Men. Captain Britain had his own following, but Meg had really only ever been supporting. Rachel had her DOFP story, but had been dropped into limbo afterwards. Davis and Claremont took the norm of the time -- dark and edgy -- and turned it on its head. Ray and Meg were relatively untapped as far as character potential, and the writing team made sure that focus was on all five members growing and developing. Excalibur's reason for being was that 'someone had to do it' and the X-Men were dead (so believed). That reluctant premise, the utter disregard for typical stories along with a mismatched team allowed for some great stories to be told.

It would be hard to duplicate now, though I sorely miss that idea behind writing a team book -- that it's about the whole team and each has an important role to play.

[The Sword is Drawn]

Reading yesterday's annual has left me a little conflicted.

Granted, obviously, the 30th anniversary book was always going to be principally an exercise in nostalgia for the original team lineup. A lineup which (unlike basically every other X-Men satellite book) has never been reunited for a relaunch. Not once, which is practically a miracle in its own right .

But it's a wafer thin story. Blink and you missed it. And oblique villain from a long abandoned and forgotten plot point from some vague old X-Men story. A tangential connection at best.

And that is exactly what killed Excalibur in 1998. I mean literally these kind of sketchy stories trying to connect Excalibur back to X-Men history.

Excalibur was only ever successful when it absolutely wasn't trying to be an X-Men book.

When it was a few X-Men joining up to face off against Captain Britain's rogues gallery, jumping through dimensions and getting into really random stuff with the rest of the Marvel UK line. Claremont and Davis. Davis' solo run. Warren Ellis tenure. Those were great.

Scott Lobdell didn't get it. He tried to make the book a series about D list X-Men villains. Nobody wanted to read that. Ben Raab write stories trying desperately to have the book connect to vague crumbs from the All-New All-Different 70 X-Men run. It got the book cancelled after a decade of publication. So badly that it didn't come back for almost another 10 years.

So deciding to hark back to that with this annual was a bit of a misfire to me. It's the wrong kind of nostalgia.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate this issue. Far from it. No idea how Brian has his eye back again (hasn't he appeared with a patch post-secret wars, already) but Hipster Bearded Captain Britain with his super-daughter in the papoose was strangely compelling. I love Maggie Braddock. Watching her talk philosophy with Nightcrawler was genuinely good. And I so badly miss seeing Brian, Kurt and Kitty interact. I'll never understand why Marvel made them intentional strangers.

But the the negative. Meggan. I think many readers probably have no idea of the original character of Meggan Puceanu, the scrappy quick tempered street kid. Bit of dirty mouth. Spoke her mind. Never stood down.

And they don't realise it because Claremont basically papered over the entirety of that characterisation. So while I understand that this was nostalgia seeing a return to insipid, weak, Meggan - who openly tells people she's practically illiterate and useless - is not a good thing in my book.

Paul Cornell tried so hard to put that to bed with CB&MI13's annual and finale, but here we are back to treating her like an idiot. That hacks me off.

Also, and I suspect this falls down simply to not understanding the UK, but you don't find many 'Maggies' in the UK anymore. Largely because of quite how badly former Prime minister Margaret 'Maggie' Thatcher soiled the name.

If you are from a working class background (as Meggan is - from the traveler community no less) you simply would not name your kid after her. Thatcher is figure of hate for 80s working class family. The woman who destroyed industries, entire communities, ad create a generation of long-term unemployed families.

There is just no that Meggan would have named her kid after a tyrant like that. No way at all. It's not quite on the level of 'you don't get German's or Austrians named 'Adolf' anymore - but for a significant percentage of UK citizens? It's actually *not* that far off.

I genuinely want to see a UK based Marvel book. But if it were to be an Excalibur title I would want to see Kitty, Kurt and Rachel on board and a British writer take the reins. Neither do see as hugely likely right now.

[yogaflame]

I'd think it was a combination of both, to be honest. Excal had some bad arcs with writers who just didn't get the concept, but it was an overall good read.

The cast was a moment in time thing, I believe.

Kurt and Kitty had been rejected in favor of introducing Gambit and Jubilee, for that late 80's edgy flavor, so they were in limbo, though had both been relatively popular X-Men. Captain Britain had his own following, but Meg had really only ever been supporting. Rachel had her DOFP story, but had been dropped into limbo afterwards. Davis and Claremont took the norm of the time -- dark and edgy -- and turned it on its head. Ray and Meg were relatively untapped as far as character potential, and the writing team made sure that focus was on all five members growing and developing. Excalibur's reason for being was that 'someone had to do it' and the X-Men were dead (so believed). That reluctant premise, the utter disregard for typical stories along with a mismatched team allowed for some great stories to be told.

It would be hard to duplicate now, though I sorely miss that idea behind writing a team book -- that it's about the whole team and each has an important role to play.

Good points, all around.

As we saw in this annual, just putting the characters named Kitty, Kurt, Rachel, Meggan, and Brian together doesn't automatically equal astounding success. Claremont and Davis really brought a lot to the table and animated those characters in a way that was really unique in the line.

The current state of the line is so disastrous in terms of characterization and long term story building, and this annual(and current line in general) proved it takes more than any set of characters to make for great stories and engaging sales/interest/appeal. It'd be great to get some of the more obscure/global/mystical X-Characters together under Kurt and Rachel's leadership and just have a go of the multiverse, but you have to have the right talent to pull it off in a meaningful, impactful way.

[The Sword is Drawn]

The current state of the line is so disastrous in terms of characterization and long term story building, and this annual(and current line in general) proved it takes more than any set of characters to make for great stories and engaging sales/interest/appeal. It'd be great to get some of the more obscure/global/mystical X-Characters together under Kurt and Rachel's leadership and just have a go of the multiverse, but you have to have the right talent to pull it off in a meaningful, impactful way.

But really, wouldn't that be more like eXiles?

I think there is a place for the original Excalibur's lineup. These were solid and long-standing character relationships which Marvel just dumped cold in '98. But I refuse to look at them as dead.

The problem is simply that the X-Office will never let Kurt and Kitty go back on loan to a title outside of the main X-Men team. Since they were brought back for the 35th anniversary, and no matter how badly they've been handled since, they won't let go. Almost 20 years of some truly crappy stories.

They wouldn't even let PAD have Kurt for X-Factor in the mid 2000s.

Rachel, on the other hand, was actually being considered for Captain Britain & MI13's second year. But then the book got cancelled.

[Sundowhn]

Good points, all around.

As we saw in this annual, just putting the characters named Kitty, Kurt, Rachel, Meggan, and Brian together doesn't automatically equal astounding success. Claremont and Davis really brought a lot to the table and animated those characters in a way that was really unique in the line.

The current state of the line is so disastrous in terms of characterization and long term story building, and this annual(and current line in general) proved it takes more than any set of characters to make for great stories and engaging sales/interest/appeal. It'd be great to get some of the more obscure/global/mystical X-Characters together under Kurt and Rachel's leadership and just have a go of the multiverse, but you have to have the right talent to pull it off in a meaningful, impactful way.

Very true. The annual read like the old issues of Excalibur with guest writers. You could read it and tell they were trying, that they really appreciated the series and almost got the point behind it, but it just didn't quite hit the mark.

I found the reunion to be cute, and that's about it. Kurt and Brian, attitude wise, were pretty spot on, with the baby. That was their classic interaction. It did show that Meggan and probably Kitty, as well, have moved beyond being able to pull it off, based on character development that has happened afterwards.

On going forward, I agree, it would take some talent to do it. A creative team would have to not just appreciate the idea behind Excalibur, but really understand it. Yes, it was fun and light-hearted, but there was more to it than that. It had heart, and it told strong stories underneath the laughs. It touched on real world problems like alcoholism, self acceptance and growing beyond people's expectations. A lot of it also poked fun at the genre, itself.

Kurt and Rachel restarting it could be a possibility. Even Brian on the roster would have potential. He still "matches" the concept. Find two other, relatively unknown members, and it has a shot, with the right creative team.

[yogaflame]

But really, wouldn't that be more like eXiles?

I mean, the CrossTime Caper is basically the most notable Excalibur story. I was alluding to that.

[The Sword is Drawn]

I found the reunion to be cute, and that's about it. Kurt and Brian, attitude wise, were pretty spot on, with the baby. That was their classic interaction. It did show that Meggan and probably Kitty, as well, have moved beyond being able to pull it off, based on character development that has happened afterwards.

I don't think it's impossible to 'pull it off'. But yes, it didn't sit right.

I think partly because the X-Office made such a deliberate effort to bar any kind of interaction between these characters for much of the past 20 years does not help. But I think that's the unnatural part. These were characters who were really close friends, living in the same place, putting their lives on the line for each other, for over a decade.

That the X-Office has largely portrayed them as total strangers for so long is just bizarre.

The writing wasn't up to scratch for the female members of the cast on this issue. There was no warmth. No family vibe. Barely even a sense of reunion. And while Kurt and Brian felt natural (especially with Maggie interacting between the two) Kitty and Rachel just felt bizarrely cold and disconnected from it all.

On going forward, I agree, it would take some talent to do it. A creative team would have to not just appreciate the idea behind Excalibur, but really understand it. Yes, it was fun and light-hearted, but there was more to it than that. It had heart, and it told strong stories underneath the laughs. It touched on real world problems like alcoholism, self acceptance and growing beyond people's expectations. A lot of it also poked fun at the genre, itself.

Some parts of that I totally agree with. It did have heart. It did have that Claremont friends-become-family-unit vibe. But even later, on Muir Isle with Warren Ellis writing and Pete Wisdom involved it still had a personality of its own which held the book together. And put simply:

Excalibur was always at its strongest and most successful when it was trying to be an X-Men book.

When it made use of Marvel UK, and Marvel's Britain. Wen it told stories in its own context. When it used CB villains like the Vixen or Sat-yr-9 or Gatecrasher ad the Technet.

The book got canned after a year of Ben Raab trying to tell stories with some vague link to the Dark Phoenix Saga or some other vague old 70s X-Men story.

I will very strongly disagree on the alcoholism tangent though. An absolute heavy handed clusterf*^k of an error which Terry Kavanagh tried to crowbar in during a fill-in issue.

Captain Britain is not, nor ever has been, an alcoholic. Kavanagh took what Claremont had shown of Brian getting drunk to (obviously unsuccessfully) dismiss the grief he was drowning in over the death of his twin sister and tried to turn it into something else.

I've been around functioning (and un-functioning) alcoholics in my life. And I know the signs. The inability to a go a day without. The hiding booze from your friends, the drinking on the sly, the secrecy.

Brian never showed any of that on Excalibur. He acted like an ******* in those early issues, and absolutely drunk more than he should. But when his team mates pointed it out to him? It came as a shock to him. And unlike an alcoholic he stopped drinking. There and then. Because he didn't like the person that was making him. And because the thought of upsetting those around him was more important to him.

An alcoholic doesn't quit like that. They can't. They have a psychological need. Going cold turkey won't work. You'll fall off that wagon. You'll become sneaky and duplicitous to have that drink. You WILL get caught. It will take months, sometimes years, to break the dependency.

Brian never had any of that.

We Brits drink. It's central to our culture. And it's very much a social experience. I often find that some of the Americans I've met in my life couldn't quite get their heads around normal everyday people going out to a pub to drink socially, with their significant other, and friends. My mother-in-law grew up in Minnesota, does not even contemplate booze as anything other than seedy, and instilled into my wife that Pubs and Bars are only there for people to solitarily drink themselves into oblivion.

That's not how we see it over here. Not at all.

I can only assume that Kavanagh reading alcoholism into the character was misunderstanding the cultural differences between our nations or something, in a similar way. But I definitely don't believe that Brian shows any true signs of alcoholism before that issue and thankfully has been seen drinking socially since.

[The Sword is Drawn]

I mean, the CrossTime Caper is basically the most notable Excalibur story. I was alluding to that.

I always felt it was a waste that eXiles never really encountered many of those infinite other Captains across the multiverse, nor used Brian as on the book. I'd have bought the heck out of that.

[Wolfsbane]

I feel like I’m in the minority of this but I was a huge fan of the late 90’s Excalibur Run. Loved Ben Raab and every issue he was involved. Loved the whole Douglocke situation and especially the Bamf issue and Salvador Larocca was at his best!. I wish we could return to that greatness.

[Innocent Bystander]

I feel like I’m in the minority of this but I was a huge fan of the late 90’s Excalibur Run. Loved Ben Raab and every issue he was involved. Loved the whole Douglocke situation and especially the Bamf issue and Salvador Larocca was at his best!. I wish we could return to that greatness.

Ben had the unenviable position of following Warren Ellis, and there are a lot of Pryde-Wisdom fans around this board.

I thought he did fine, and I absolutely loved his work on Warehouse 13.