Red Hood and the Outlaws #15 Preview/Discussion

[Rise]

Dick definatly knows, the Annual made that very clear throught the dialogue.

If somehow Kate and co don`t that`s a very weird way to handle things with all these cameos on diners and stuff.

It's not weird at all. Jason doesn't have any relationship nor he even talked with Kate and her team in rebirtn and she was quite rude to him the one time they talked in BE.

[Assam]

From reading the review, I'm super excited for the issue and I can't wait for the team up with SS in the next two issues.

While dropping the book in general is up in the air at this point, I decided I'm at least gonna sit out of the Suicide Squad issues.

[Rise]

While dropping the book in general is up in the air at this point, I decided I'm at least gonna sit out of the Suicide Squad issues.

Each to their own. The Outlaws/Squad team up has potential to be really fun dynamic and I can't wait for their shenanigans.

[G-Potion]

It's been a while since I came here and you guys still as sunny as ever I see .

From reading the review, I'm super excited for the issue and I can't wait for the team up with SS in the next two issues.

We need to offset Jason's gloom is all.

[Jackalope89]

We need to offset Jason's gloom is all.

He and Harley can bond on how much they both hate Mistah J!

[Caivu]

It's not weird at all. Jason doesn't have any relationship nor he even talked with Kate and her team in rebirtn and she was quite rude to him the one time they talked in BE.

Kate wasn't rude to him in Batman Eternal.

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She snaps at him once after he immediately deviates from the plan he just agreed to, but that's it.

Plus, Kate knows him well enough to know he's an ally and she understands the basics of what the Outlaws are, so if it looks like he or they are up to something, he should at least be given a chance to explain himself before being attacked.

That apparently doesn't happen in this issue, and if so, it's not only wrong in that sense but also directly contradicts what Kate said in the first scene.

[Rise]

Kate wasn't rude to him in Batman Eternal.

She snaps at him once after he immediately deviates from the plan he just agreed to, but that's it.

Is that all? I haven't read BE in pretty long time, but I remember her coming off kind of rude (wasn't you who said that she thought of him as an idiot?). If I was wrong, then my mistake.

Plus, Kate knows him well enough to know he's an ally and she understands the basics of what the Outlaws are, so if it looks like he or they are up to something, he should at least be given a chance to explain himself before being attacked.

That apparently doesn't happen in this issue, and if so, it's not only wrong in that sense but also directly contradicts what Kate said in the first scene.

How would you know someone well enough from just meeting them once before in your life?

She knows the basics about him, not on personal level and anyone who doesn't really know Jason will raise their eyebrows over his actions and find them quite questionable (just few issues ago the outlaws were called war criminals over what happened in Qurac). After all, DC heroes can be quite judgmental jerks over anyone who doesn't follow their moral ground and it is really not ooc.

Besides, the reviewer didn't not even elaborate more on the issue for us to judge it before we even read it. What was Bizarro's plan? Why the outlaws wanted to meet up with the Tec team? How did their meeting end? And how did the outlaws end up in prison later?

[JasonTodd428]

Is that all? I haven't read BE in pretty long and remember her coming off rude (wasn't you who said that she thought of him as an idiot?). If I was wrong, then my mistake.



How would you know someone well enough from just meeting them once before in your life?

She knows the basics about him, not in personal level and anyone who doesn't really know Jason will raise their eyebrows over his actions and find them quite questionable (just few issues ago the outlaws were called war criminals over what happened in Qurac). After all, DC heroes can be quite judgmental jerks over anyone who doesn't follow their moral ground and it is really not occ.

Besides, the reviewer didn't not even elaborate more on the issue for us to judge it before we even read it. What was Bizarro's plan? Why the outlaws wanted to meet up with the Tec team? How did their meeting end? And how did the outlaws end up prison later?

Exactly, we have no idea of the details here yet and we won't until we all have the issue in our hands. Also the reviewer here may be one of my favorite RHATO reviewers but that doesn't mean I haven't disagreed with parts of or even all of her reviews before in the past. This is just ONE person's interpretation of the events that transpire in this issue. Other people very likely will read it differently.

In any case I'm looking forward to the issue.

[Caivu]

Is that all? I haven't read BE in pretty long and remember her coming off rude (wasn't you who said that she thought of him as an idiot?). If I was wrong, then my mistake.

It was in Batman and Robin #35, and yeah, she does call him an idiot. But based on the rest of the scene, she was also annoyed at being interrupted while working and having a big piece of news dropped on her (which basically amounted to "You're going to be pretty much the only vigilante in Gotham for a few days, good luck!").

Their last interaction was in Batman Eternal, and based on that, Kate's at least neutral toward him, no worse.

How would you know someone well enough from just meeting them once before in your life?

She knows the basics about him, not in personal level and anyone who doesn't really know Jason will raise their eyebrows over his actions and find them quite questionable (just few issues ago the outlaws were called war criminals over what happened in Qurac). After all, DC heroes can be quite judgmental jerks over anyone who doesn't follow their moral ground and it is really not occ.

Kate has met Jason once and seen him joined alongside other known allies (whether working or not) at least five other times, one of which was when they all helped save the world at the end of B&RE, and another when they were both invited to the Batcave with most of the rest of the family. And again, she knows basically what the Outlaws are about. She doesn't have to know him well personally to know that if it looks like he's gone rogue, it deserves questioning before attacking (unless it's extremely severe).

Plus, this is how Kate dealt with a similar situation involving someone she absolutely didn't know at all:



She's past this whole "hit first, ask questions later" thing (except in dire situations).

Besides, the reviewer didn't not even elaborate more on the issue for us to judge it before we even read it. What was Bizarro's plan? Why the outlaws wanted to meet up with the Tec team? How did their meeting end? And how did the outlaws end up prison later?

The part of the review that concerns me is this:

spoilers:

While it’s great to see some of the other Bats in the RHATO universe, outside of the Annual, this issue shows clearly why Jason doesn’t trust his family in any capacity and why he’s far closer to Artemis and Bizarro than he is to any of the people he grew up with: they show him no respect or even basic decency. The Batmen come onto the scene, hitting first and asking questions later. Frankly? It’s rude and unworthy of Batman’s ‘hand-picked allies’. They’re supposed to be detectives, chosen by the world’s greatest detective. Yet, as Kate herself says in the issue, she doesn’t know why Bruce hasn’t ‘shut down’ the Outlaws and it never, once, occurs to her or the others to simply ask.

end of spoilers

There could certainly be more to that, like maybe they're scouting the place and something happens so that they have to immediately intervene to stop it. But them going directly to the Outlaws and engaging them is wrong with the info available right now.

[Rise]

Kate has met Jason once and seen him joined alongside other known allies (whether working or not) at least five other times, one of which was when they all helped save the world at the end of B&RE, and another when they were both invited to the Batcave with most of the rest of the family. And again, she knows basically what the Outlaws are about. She doesn't have to know him well personally to know that if it looks like he's gone rogue, it deserves questioning before attacking (unless it's extremely severe).

Meeting someone and having an actual conversation are two different things since the two only talked once. She only know him by reputation and she might have felt that Bruce is being soft on him because we never saw what she actually think of him or how much she know about the outlaws.

Plus, this is how Kate dealt with a similar situation involving someone she absolutely didn't know at all:

She's past this whole "hit first, ask questions later" thing (except in dire situations)

The two situation aren't really comparable. I don't know much about her since I don't read her book, but isn't she a new hero in gotham? She doesn't have the history that Jason does nor Batwoman know anything about her so she might have being more willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because she doesn't know her history.

The part of the review that concerns me is this:

There could certainly be more to that, like maybe they're scouting the place and something happens so that they have to immediately intervene to stop it. But them going directly to the Outlaws and engaging them is wrong with the info available right now.

Can't deny that the reviewer sound kind of harsh nor blame you for being wary over what she said, but that could be just her own interpretation of the scene. So, I say just wait for the issue before you judge it. You might have end up liking it or might not, it's up to you.

[Caivu]

Meeting someone and having an actual conversation are two different things since the two only talked once. She only know him by reputation and she might have felt that Bruce is being soft on him because we never saw what she actually think of him or how much she know about the outlaws.

That really wouldn't make much sense. Kate knows Jason's general attitude toward killing, and it's only slightly more extreme than her own. Kate has killed, Bruce knows that Kate has killed and has that in her, and Kate knows Bruce knows this. For her to be that mad at Jason just for that would make no sense. There's no reason for her to be that hypocritical that I can see.

The two situation aren't really comparable. I don't know much about her since I don't read her book, but isn't she a new hero in gotham? She doesn't have the history that Jason does nor Batwoman know anything about her so she might have being more willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because she doesn't know her history.

That's exactly the point. Kate doesn't know Mother Panic and yet doesn't jump in and attack her. She knows far more of Jason and knows he's an ally so she would need a very good reason to just attack him outright.

[Rise]

That really wouldn't make much sense. Kate knows Jason's general attitude toward killing, and it's only slightly more extreme than her own. Kate has killed, Bruce knows that Kate has killed and has that in her, and Kate knows Bruce knows this. For her to be that mad at Jason just for that would make no sense. There's no reason for her to be that hypocritical that I can see.

That's exactly the point. Kate doesn't know Mother Panic and yet doesn't jump in and attack her. She knows far more of Jason and knows he's an ally so she would need a very good reason to just attack him outright.

Breaking news: Heroes can be really hypocrites. Batman has his moments when he is hypocrite, Jason too and it's not the end of the world that Kate can be really hypocrite and use double standards with Jason.

Even Superman was quick to judge someone in AC and almost broke the building over Batman's head in SP because of misunderstanding. Sometimes characters act irrationally like real people do.

And to call Batwoman's behaviour with Jason and his team "ooc", she needs to have an actual relationship with him and established knowledge about what she think of him. Since we have neither besides the one time they had very short conversation, I don't find her actions with him weird.

[Caivu]

Breaking news: Heroes can be really hypocrites. Batman has his moments when he is hypocrite, Jason too and it's not the end of the world that Kate can be really hypocrite and use double standards with Jason.

Except going by the info available, there's literally no reason for her to act that way based on what she knows about Jason and the Outlaws. No reason for her to apply double standards to him.

If it turns out that there is a good reason for this, I'll be the first to say it. But right now it's wrong.

[The Whovian]

This issue looks crazy good! Can't wait!

[Rise]

Semi catch up with the latest news. What's up with the theory that Willis Todd could be the mysterious stalker?! Did Lobdell mention him recently in an interview?