Retailer Fury At Marvel NYCC Panel

[Beorg]

I'm a fan. I don't feel embattled in the slightest.

You're also an employee.

[Redjack]

Great if you don't. But cmon, the amount of virtue signaling thats been coming out of that place and its freelancers is unreal. It's clumsy in its execution, replacing all the characters around the same time, why not replace a couple characters where it makes some sense and then make some new great characters. Really invest in it, y'know? Get creative teams fans would really get excited over, design some great costumes. Actually have some damn faith in yourself and the readers instead of going for a cheap solution.

The phrase "virtue signaling" is one that I don't recognize beyond the apparent negative connotation you mean it to carry. I presume it's something along the lines of the pejorative use of the "SJW" tag (which is pretty amusing to me that anyone would consider such a thing an insult.)

You guys make a LOT of assumptions about what it takes to make the funny books and almost none of them are anything close to accurate.

Get creative teams fans would really get excited over

I promise you, every EiC in comics publishing tries to do just that. You really have to put down the phrase "the fans." There are LOTS of fans and we don't all agree with your position about who's amazing and who's not.

replacing all the characters around the same time,

that never happened.

virtue signaling thats been coming out of that place and its freelancers is unreal

I'm going to need this described because i'm not sure what it means.

Actually have some damn faith in yourself and the readers

i guarantee, a good portion of the blowback over diversity comes as a massive surprise to the people presenting it. they actually did have faith in the audience. In too many instances, that faith was not rewarded.

instead of going for a cheap solution.

that never happened.

[Redjack]

You're also an employee.

nope. my comments are in no way governed by my past present or future connection to Marvel Entertainment. My contract is very specific and it says NOTHING about me voicing my opinions as I see fit provided I don't divulge any Proprietary Corporate Secrets (which I never will). In terms of my ongoing relationship with marvel comics, there is none. My contracts are all complete and, unless I pitch something to them that they buy, we're done.

I have a spine. Nobody dictates my comments but me. Mileage varies.

[Redjack]

Yet, Marvel seems to get cold feet when they're asked to produce something that sells.

Again, this is a weird fallacy amongst those who think of themselves as "the" fans or "the core" fanbase.

You don't speak for us all and no entertainment company polls the audience in advance of bringing stuff to market. It doesn't work that way and it's never going to.

[Beorg]

nope. my comments are in no way governed by my past present or future connection to Marvel Entertainment. My contract is very specific and it says NOTHING about me voicing my opinions as

It is if you want to work there again. No one bad mouths an employer only to turn up for an interview the next day.

[majormcmeat]

So many Marvel titles sell pathetically low numbers after just a couple issues.
So the fans some of these books appeal to must not number enough to support a book.

[Redjack]

It is if you want to work there again. No one bad mouths an employer only to turn up for an interview the next day.

Sorry. Nope. And i don't "badmouth" anyone. There are stacks of things I think and have always thought are wrong with Marvel Comics. Follow my twitter if you doubt me. Writing comics is something i do for fun, not profit. My day job is something very different. So I have no pressure, either contractually or personally to refrain from speaking my mind just as I always have.

[Citizen Kane]

Again, this is a weird fallacy amongst those who think of themselves as "the" fans or "the core" fanbase.

You don't speak for us all and no entertainment company polls the audience in advance of bringing stuff to market. It doesn't work that way and it's never going to.

I agree; I don't speak for everyone. In fact, I speak for no one but myself. It just so happens that a majority of comic fans echo some of my beliefs.

Just so we don't misunderstand each other in the future, I'm of the belief that if something is worth the time, it's worth the dime. I, along with many others, have not seen this quality in Marvel for quite some time. Of course, there are other factors involved with the decline of the industry, but I'd rather not discuss it and derail this topic further. If you wish to discuss it, feel free to PM me.

[ed2962]

The phrase "virtue signaling" is one that I don't recognize beyond the apparent negative connotation you mean it to carry. I presume it's something along the lines of the pejorative use of the "SJW" tag (which is pretty amusing to me that anyone would consider such a thing an insult.)

You guys make a LOT of assumptions about what it takes to make the funny books and almost none of them are anything close to accurate.

I promise you, every EiC in comics publishing tries to do just that. You really have to put down the phrase "the fans." There are LOTS of fans and we don't all agree with your position about who's amazing and who's not.

that never happened.

I'm going to need this described because i'm not sure what it means.

i guarantee, a good portion of the blowback over diversity comes as a massive surprise to the people presenting it. they actually did have faith in the audience. In too many instances, that faith was not rewarded.

that never happened.

It's a "Holier Than Thou" insult mostly ( though not exclusively) aimed at "liberals". For instance, if i were to say, "That comedian's joke about pre-marital sex was out of line!" Someone would probably call me a prude. But if I were to say, "Hey, rape jokes aren't funny!" Someone would say, there he goes "virtue signaling" again.

[Redjack]

I agree; I don't speak for everyone. In fact, I speak for no one but myself. It just so happens that a majority of comic fans echo some of my beliefs.

False. THat's something you believe but there's no evidence to support it.

Just so we don't misunderstand each other in the future, I'm of the belief that if something is worth the time, it's worth the dime. I, along with many others, have not seen this quality in Marvel for quite some time.

then you aren't reading the right books. There are lot of great Marvel books and a lot that I prefer to avoid. Just like always.

Of course, there are other factors involved with the decline of the industry, but I'd rather not discuss it and derail this topic further. If you wish to discuss it, feel free to PM me.

Everything i have to say on this subject will always be said publicly. There's no difference between me in this forum and me on the street in RL.

[Redjack]

It's a "Holier Than Thou" insult mostly ( though not exclusively) aimed at "liberals". For instance, if i were to say, "That comedian's joke about pre-marital sex was out of line!" Someone would probably call me a prude. But if I were to say, "Hey, rape jokes aren't funny!" Someone would say, there he goes "virtue signaling" again.

ah. so, more ignorable nonsense, then.

[Jokerz79]

False. THat's something you believe but there's no evidence to support it.



then you aren't reading the right books. There are lot of great Marvel books and a lot that I prefer to avoid. Just like always.



Everything i have to say on this subject will always be said publicly. There's no difference between me in this forum and me on the street in RL.

The fact there is such a large debate online and even with comic book store retailers telling Marvel every chance they get their is definitely a desire for the classic versions of character which not is pretty moot because most are back or coming back but nothing wrong with keep saying it until all are officially back. I've known 3 comic book store owners personally 2 pretty liberal politically and 1 conservative and ironically the conservative was the one who didn't give a damn about who starred in what book or what was where what costume all he cared about was who sold end of it he was a true capitalist.

[majormcmeat]

It's a "Holier Than Thou" insult mostly ( though not exclusively) aimed at "liberals". For instance, if i were to say, "That comedian's joke about pre-marital sex was out of line!" Someone would probably call me a prude. But if I were to say, "Hey, rape jokes aren't funny!" Someone would say, there he goes "virtue signaling" again.

It's about perceived motivation.
It's "virtue signaling" if done for the sake of looking good.

Seems reasonable to assume a big company like Marvel is doing stuff like this mostly as a marketing tactic.
Especially when so many of these books feel so lazily executed.

[Citizen Kane]

False. THat's something you believe but there's no evidence to support it.

I'd cite the state of the industry as a good tell as to whether or not I'm of the majority.

then you aren't reading the right books.

Perhaps the right books don't exist. All I'm currently reading from Marvel is Thanos. Pre-Secret Wars, I was collecting Captain America, Superior Iron-Man, Moon Knight, Thor, Spider-Man, and the Avengers. Although, I must admit that I was growing tired of Captain America and Spider-Man even before Secret Wars started.

[Redjack]

It's about perceived motivation.
It's "virtue signaling" if done for the sake of looking good.

Seems reasonable to assume a big company like Marvel is doing stuff like this mostly as a marketing tactic.
Especially when so many of these books feel so lazily executed.

Which ones?

And "Marvel" is really about ten human beings in terms of making this sort of decision. Do you really feel you have insight into their motivations? Why? How?